The Wounds Of The Faithful

In this episode, Diana  is joined by guest Ken Keys, PhD, President of CRG and an expert on leadership, wellness, and life purpose. They discuss Ken's difficult upbringing, including the trauma experienced by his parents and his own battles with depression and suicidal thoughts. Ken shares his journey to discovering his purpose, the importance of emotional intelligence, and the impact of finding forgivingness and letting go of past trauma. The episode also highlights actionable steps for personal growth and emphasizes the importance of surrounding oneself with supportive and positive influences.00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message00:47 Welcome to the Podcast01:20 Diana's Personal Update02:06 Practicing Gratitude03:40 Introducing Today's Guest: Ken Keys04:48 Ken Keys' Background and Career Journey05:53 Ken's Family and Upbringing08:42 Challenges and Lessons from Dairy Farming16:20 Ken's Struggles with Depression and Wellness Journey19:46 Traumatic Experience and Forgiveness28:20 Family Dynamics and Emotional Growth30:52 The Decline of Reverence for God31:13 The Impact of Media on Society31:54 Personal Reflections on Family and Intimacy32:36 Journey Back to Faith33:49 Discovering a New Christian Community35:01 Embracing Ministry and Leadership36:37 The Importance of Personal Style in Ministry38:57 Overcoming Family Expectations41:27 Judgment and Acceptance in Christian Life46:27 The Influence of Associations55:23 Final Thoughts and Actionable Steps
www.kenkeis.com/faithful
for your free gift
 
Website: https://dswministries.org
Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/
Social media links:
Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879
Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma
Affiliate links:
Our Sponsor: 753 Academy:
https://www.753academy.com/
Can’t travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here!
https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP
An easy way to help my ministry:
https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/
A donation link:
https://dswministries.org/donate/
EP 7 Guest Ken Keis Living On Purpose
[00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels.
They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works.
Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes.
Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana . She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help.
Now here is Diana.
Hi everybody. How are you guys doing today? I hope you are well. It is a beautiful day outside. Fall isn't even here yet it seems. But my garden. We got to harvest some of our food. We ate some green beans and snap peas and ate some strawberries from my garden. We're just waiting for the tomatoes to ripen.
But it's really exciting when you start eating from your own garden, you didn't even think it was going to survive.
And with the change of seasons [00:02:00] here,
and Thanksgiving is coming up, holidays are coming up. I didn't really do a Thanksgiving podcast, but we want to be thankful.
It's hard to be thankful this year, isn't it? Was a huge dumpster fire, and it's probably not all gonna go away you know, January 1st , I'm sure isn't gonna magically disappear, but, um,
we have to practice the art of being thankful and grateful for what we have. Make a list, and I know it's hard, just the littlest things that you see during the day. Hey, I have the song on the radio I heard, and it was such a blessing to me. Or like, me, I had a harvest this week. Or, oh, the weather is so beautiful or.
My kid got an A on his spelling. Just the little things, just make a [00:03:00] list and go back to those lists. And I'm not one of those positive thinker people. I'm not, I have to work at being positive. I like being around positive people because that lifts me up. My husband is naturally positive and he lifts me up.
Right now. He's going through a hard time with his medical stuff and I have to lift him up
when I'm having a bad day, he has to lift me up. But we try and practice gratefulness even in the little things. So I hope that encourages you during this holiday. I'm not gonna do a big holiday podcast.
Today I have a guest with me today and he's going to talk about, when you feel like, your life doesn't feel like it has meeting you don't have any fulfillment, you're trying to get outta the hole you're in. Maybe you got outta a domestic violence situation and you don't know how to fulfill your [00:04:00] dreams.
You don't know how to take that step and work towards your ideal life. Well, this next guest is going to help you do that, to leave the drama behind and find out, which parts of your personality you were born with, which ones you probably need to get rid of, or which ones you can develop further.
How you're able to adapt to other people's behavior. Approach your interactions with confidence instead of fear. Find out what makes other people tick. How to handle misunderstandings and defensiveness. How do you handle your triggers? Hey, we've all got drama that we need to leave behind.
We wanna move forward, right? So I'm going to read his bio here. Ken Keys PhD President of CRG is a global expert on leadership, wellness, behavioral assessments, and life purpose. [00:05:00] In 28 years, he has conducted over 3000 presentations and invested 10,000 hours. In consulting and coaching. Ken Keys is considered a foremost global authority on the way assessment strategies and processes.
Increase and multiply success rates. He's co-created CRGs proprietary development models and has written over 4 million words of content for 40 business training programs and 400 plus articles. His latest book, the Quest for Purpose, a Self-Discovery Process to Find It and Live It. So please welcome Ken Keys.
Thanks so much, Ken Keith, for coming on the show. Appreciate it. Well, well it's great to be hanging out with you.
Tell us about your self, your upbringing, and your family. Did you come from a [00:06:00] successful family?
Well, um, I am a third generation, uh, in Canada. So my grandparents, all four came from Hungary between the first and second World War as immigrants. And then they settled here. I'm about an hour east of Vancouver, Canada, so that's where I make my home. And so I actually grew up on a dairy farm. After uh, high school I went to agricultural college, came back to work on the farm, but pretty well a few months in dad and I were ready to beat each other into a pulp.
'cause we really didn't get along. Both of us wanted to be in charge and dad was kind of of the European mindset, just do what I say. I'll only tell you and criticize you. When you screw up. I'm never going to affirm you or. Do something positive 'cause that might go to your head. Aw. And so I, you know, after a couple of years I left the farm, I went and worked in agricultural fields as first, uh, for the Department of Agriculture.
Then as a [00:07:00] feed sales rep, uh, for agriculture company. My diploma is a nutrition and genetics, so I was really a nutritionist to dairy cattle farmers. And then I actually started my own farm across the street. Which was fine, I could do my own thing. And then the late eighties, I got into this industry as a sales trainer.
So I bought a franchise in the sales training. I said, what a na natural transition, uh, closed down my dairy farm. And then that was the beginning of this. Now when we're recording this, 32 years later, I said, where did that go? Uh, and, you know, three or four books, the author of 12 psychological assessments presented 3000 times somewhere around the world.
Uh, authored 4 million words of content. You know, it's an interesting story and journey. And of course, I'll link in my, uh, face story here in a minute as well. So now this, it is. 32 years doing what I'm doing. And the company that I own was founded in 1979 by a professor at a Christian university. He wanted to create a, uh, create an assessment that was [00:08:00] different, better, more improved than Disc Myers-Briggs true colors, way back in 1979.
And so he created the tool, the personal style indicator. I got connected to that company in 1990 and then bought it nearly 20 years ago. So we're now, you know, doing business in 12 languages, 30 countries around the world. And all our tools are built on a Christian worldview view, but we equally serve, you know, like Boeing mm-hmm.
Or companies of that nature, or Ford or Chrysler as we do Ministries. And we just say, we're just here to help develop people. And then my purpose in life is to help others to live, lead, and work on purpose and to help them to realize their potential. So that's really been our focus for the last three decades.
Well, you talk about the cows and I don't think I've ever milked a cow and well, it is 24 7, and I think that was one of the things that happened. I think, and here's my. Encouragement and challenge for those people that are listening, watching this show today [00:09:00] is I got up one morning with my dairy herd and I asked myself this question, if I was doing this same thing 20 years from now, would that be okay?
And I said, no, no, no, no, no. I can't be doing that. And I always knew I was to be a speaker. Even when I was 16, I was speaking in front of groups, MCing groups asked to do that kinda work. Uh, I never thought I would be an author because my grade nine teacher said, well, I wouldn't amount to anything because I couldn't read or write.
And it was discovered when I did my master's degree that I was dyslexic. So the invention of the computer when I went to school, I'm young, just to let you know, but when I went to school, there weren't, there weren't computers. The program word wasn't there to help me understand or see the words, uh, words that I was misspelling.
And the reality is, is that, so I have mispronounced some words, so what doesn't matter, you know, get over it. And that led me to being a writer, which no way you [00:10:00] would've ever convinced me that was gonna be something that I would do almost more of than any single item in my lifetime. So here we are.
And now just really trying to, you know, live his purpose and to help encourage other people to live theirs and to be anchored in that. Wow. Research shows. Diana is that when you're out there and engaging in nature, it actually feeds your soul. It does. So, even the research of kids that live in the countryside are healthier than those mm-hmm.
That live in sterile environments in a condo, you know, in a 50 story building. I'm not here to judge you because you live in a condo. I'm just saying the reality is the health stats show that when you're out and about and you're just kind of in nature, your immunity strengthens, but so does your core soul because you're out there with nature and hey, that was designed that way.
Absolutely. I think it's kept me sane. I liked being outside. I liked going out there and fussing over [00:11:00] my plants.
Well, it's in, it's always interesting me to quote unquote live off the grid. And what I mean by that is just being a property that doesn't require utilities from third parties and things like that. But I'd live close to the town or city. There is a lot of effort and work, and one of the reasons that I did stop dairy farming was the 24 7 obligation, 365 days a year.
I mean, you never have a day off in a dairy farmer's environment. Now, I appreciate the values that I learned, tenacity, persistence it doesn't matter what the weather's doing. I remember one time where it was very cold. One February. It was rare for where we live, but all the pipes and everything were frozen.
Well, it took me four hours of fighting just to thaw all the pipes out so I could milk my cows. And just going back in the house and watching TV wasn't an option. It had to be done. So no matter, you know, what your personality or personal style is or anything like that, those character [00:12:00] traits were entrenched in me or developed in me in that persistence, uh, growing up.
So that, you know, that's part of what I bring into it. I'm not. Mm-hmm. Uh, I was thankful for growing up in that environment, but it wasn't something that I was meant to do going forward.
So you mentioned your father, but you also said that your mom, had some abuse in her childhood Hmm.
Would you, be willing to elaborate on that? Sure. You know, it's interesting. I grew up in quote unquote a Christian home. Mm-hmm. But it wasn't really because my grandparents were Presbyterian in their background. No judgment. Anybody has that background. I grew up in the Presbyterian church. My brother and I were the youth, so that was, they were the only ones that were attending.
But what I didn't see in my family was really the relationship with Christ. Mm. It was a cognitive thing, it was a cerebral thing. It was a duty, but it wasn't really an experience. It wasn't a relationship whatsoever. And of course, later on, I sort of [00:13:00] left the church. I can tell you my spiritual story here in a bit.
But as a result of that, my dad was 16 years of age when his dad died of an unknown causes. He was on the farm, so he was forced to quit school in grade eight or nine to take over the farm with his mother. Now, his eldest brother was working off the farm, but also was helping on the farm, and a year later died of an unknown.
As well. So here his father dies and then, you know, the next year before he is almost 17, his eldest brother that he looked up to died as well. Oh. And then my grandmother, where I was one of the, I wasn't the eldest male, but in that culture, you know, males just seemed to be, that was important to grandma.
So I was the first born in Elst male farm. Grandma was pretty good with me, but she had a critical spirit. And so that spirit then led into my dad. My dad's way of dealing with that trauma was [00:14:00] to say nothing, just really be quiet. Mm-hmm. And the culture, the Hungarian culture also was one of non-emotional.
I mean, you didn't share your feelings, you didn't share what was going on. You didn't share your heart. And even though my dad was on the board of the church, an elder. I never saw him pray. I never really see him have this relationship. He believes in God, you know, is he saved? I don't know. I mean, it's hard to know just for the viewers.
I'm an ordained pastor now, so, this is kind of a full circle for me. And then my mom, grew up in as an, as a teenager with a father who was abusive when he was drinking. So an adult child of an alcoholic is kind of the process. So he, later on, , he straightened up. However, there was one night, my understanding from the story, I wasn't around yet where grandpa came home and then, was, beating on the kids and grandma got a knife and says, you touch him again, I'll kill you.
Mm. And so that was kind of the environment that my mom grew up in. Now, grandpa, [00:15:00] later on when I knew him, I never knew that part of him. He was able to get his binge drinking under control. His English was broken, but we had a great relationship. He passed away sooner, and then grandma was left.
Grandma was a critical spirits to my mom. So my mom now as we record, this is 86, going on 87 soon, and, I think she worries for the entire planet. I think her self-worth as far as she still has not processed this value set. So she plays the victim card extensively. And then as far as my environment for my dad, giving compliments, providing compliments just never happened.
So he is 88 at the time of recording this and I'm 60. And I do not recall ever him telling me that he loves me. Aw. I just not now, does he? Yes, he does. But to verbally say that I love you just doesn't happen. I could go to his place though. And say, [00:16:00] dad, I need to borrow your truck. I need to borrow tools.
Always, yes. Never says no to being helpful, but to be able to have that emotional connection and to articulate it is not something he learned. I think he did the best that he could with what he knew. So same with my mom. So I don't, I'm not bitter with them now. I'm obviously disappointed. But what it led to for me in my teenage years, when I came back from college, so I was 19 years of age, I think when I finished college, I started when I was younger is, I was suicidal.
Hmm. So I sat there on the farm, here I'm arguing with my dad. I want to take it over, but he won't include me in any decisions. This is the, it's my way of the highway. There was no relationship per se, it was just a dictatorship. Mm-hmm. And then talking about deeper things that never happened,
at home, when I got in some trouble with a girl, in my younger years, I wanted to share that with my mom, and she just started to criticize me. So it told me [00:17:00] never share anything with my mother that I'm dealing with as far as those pieces. So I sat there and I really said, is life really worth it?
And for those of you that have been through trauma or whatever, suicide is really calling out, suicide is a hopelessness. It's a mm-hmm. Where you believe in that moment that not being here would be far less painful than being here. And first of all, it's alive, the enemy. So if we think about John 10, 10 is that the enemy comes to, kill, steal, and destroy or whatever that order is, and.
And so he wants you to, take your own life because then you know what, your impact for the ministry is not gonna be there. Your impact for others is not gonna be there. Well, obviously I didn't take my life, but I thought about it and I had those components or considerations Later on in life, about a decade later, I was diagnosed asmatic depressive.
And so I went on an antidepressant called Lithium, and it was my friend of mine, [00:18:00] actually out of Dallas, Texas. And she was a psychologist and she said, Ken, you're not a depressed person. There's something else biologically going on with you. And so we, I, at my insistence, did a glucose tolerance test, found out I was hypoglycemic.
I wasn't depressed at all. Yeah. So what that had to do was around my blood sugar levels. So one of my passions now in life is I love to develop the whole person. And we have 12 assessments in our company from personality, but we also have an assessment on wellness and stress. And as a, I consider myself, a wellness expert.
Mm-hmm. Because I don't believe that we need to rely on external people for my health. And so a lot of times people get into trouble where they don't take care of themselves. So mm-hmm. It's very difficult to be alive and functional and be a spiritual, , lion when you are fatigued, when you have no [00:19:00] energy.
So, uh, I say fatigue makes cowards of us all. I wasn't the person who said I was another person who had started that. So I started to look at how can I take care of myself? Make sure you get the sleep, make sure for the most part you eat right, that you do things right. A lot of times as individuals, we don't take care of ourselves, and then we wonder why we're lethargic or we can't focus or we can't concentrate.
And we do that with our kids. So I, you know, this body is a temple. We have a responsibility to take care of it. So that's why we've been working in all these different areas. And then one other. And then we're talking about trauma. And I haven't, I've only shared this very few times on podcasts and I don't, not that it's a secret.
I actually share this story in my book, the Quest for Purpose. Mm-hmm. Which I am actually going to give everybody a copy of this at the end of the show. Right. Wow. So we are gonna be able to give you a free download of that book. But in the book, in 1982, I was actually [00:20:00] dating my high school sweetheart. So it was the person that I took to my prom.
She was a couple years younger than me. And on December 13th, 1982 the police officer showed up at my home and said, we'd like to interview Ken. Now I happen to be out in town with my brother at that time, and there wasn't cell phones that we personally had. So when I got that, they said it's very urgent that Ken come to the station as soon as he gets home.
I'm curious. I don't know what this is about. I am also nervous. I'm a little bit fearful. I'm having nervous energy and trying to crack jokes when I get to the police department. Yeah. So I get into one of these interview rooms that are just like, the TV says steel chairs, bricks, security, glass.
One person in the room, TV cameras recording you. And I say, you know, what's this about? And the officer says, we have a reason to believe that you are, dating or a boyfriend of Carol Ann Repel. And I said, yeah, well that's true. And he said, well, she was murdered last [00:21:00] night. Oh. And so, what are you talking about?
And I was one of the second last people to talk to her, and I had been chatting with her on the phone. She was a individual who was gifted and skilled and wanted to be the first female fighter pilot in the Canadian forces. So she was late at night at her employer's location, which was at the airport, and the janitor made a sexual advance to her that went wrong and then beat her to death.
Oh, so that's, I'm being interviewed for this. They're asking about it and it came to learn. They didn't know who did it. It was a mystery for months, but they had their suspicions, but they had no proof. And eventually they, charged somebody who I knew, he had been hired as a security guard for some youth group work that we had done.
At that moment, that day, I went to work. I said, I'm like, I was complete denial. Just [00:22:00] what is going on on this thing? She was 22 years of age, Diana. Mm-hmm. Maybe going on to 23. So we've all had our situations or stories. It took me years later where I did a process, called emotional freedom Technique.
You can agree with it or not, but it was a Christian who created it. I was drenched in sweat, just processing all the. Emotional sort of luggage and baggage that came out of that stuff through the process we did. It was, you just call it very, very intense counseling, if you wanna call it that. And, so we, but I still needed to kind of move forward.
I was thankful for the relationship with her. I was angry, upset, but certainly in denial for not months but years, because of that event and when it occurred. There. And then being a person of interest is, has its own dynamics. Oh, so they thought it might have been you? Well, there was that consideration.
Now I had a, alibi. I was actually with my parents that night when this [00:23:00] occurred. So that, I mean, I lived alone. I was a single guy, so it was just happenstance, the Holy Spirit protecting me mm-hmm. From any kinda suspicions. But really they were trying to figure out who did it. And I was a witness to, that by being one of the last people to talk to her alive.
Hmm. And now, you know, when we're recording, this is many, many years later, almost 40 years later, uh, but still it has sort of an emotional tag that goes with that. So all of us have had things that happen. My encouragement is, is no matter what, because I mean, you're in your podcast trying to help people go through trauma.
You always have a choice about what you're gonna do with it. And as a trained counselor. A lot of times in the past, counseling was always about processing your past. I disagree with that. Is that we need to look to our future. Mm-hmm. You know, Carolyn Lee's research on, you know, you know who turned on, who switch off your brain and switch on your brain.
Her [00:24:00] books really talks about what you focus on. Gets more on more of it. So if I go in counseling and just relive the event and relive the event and relive the event, well I haven't moved you forward. Forward. So I'm not denying its issues or what's going on or that it happened, I'm just denying it's hold in your future.
So this is around forgiveness. I had to forgive the guy who killed her. Mm-hmm. Because, uh, you know, the old story, everybody has heard this, if you've been in any front of any servant, is that unforgiveness is like you taking the poison and wanting the other person to live. Right. We've all heard that. Yes.
Well, we just need to be reminded of that to, I wasn't obviously agreeing with the heinous act. He did, but I had to forgive him so that I would be free in that his heinous act wouldn't be affecting me, plus my family and everybody else around me as well. So, uh, I don't think you knew that story was coming, Diana.
Actually, I did. I [00:25:00] read your blog. Oh, you did? You did. Oh, well, you're one of the few. So, uh, and when I do my normal podcast, I don't mention this for very often, but you know, the Holy Spirit has lifted me up, been there beside me in that. It's not him who did this. You know, I can rely on him to be able to kind of build me up.
And in fact, I have to, I mean, if we're going through life, we're just gonna have stuff happen. Mm-hmm. It's just part of the dynamic of living in a broken world. Yeah. It definitely is a fallen world. Yeah. I'll swing around back to what you said about forgiveness. Did the, murderer, go to prison or did he think of that?
Yeah, he was eventually caught. What they did is they knew who he was, but they didn't, you know, DNA was kind of, just in its infancy stages then in 1982. So, what they did is they set up a sting operation and then they had somebody, you know, where people wear wire and they're recording what's being [00:26:00] said.
There was some, someone in his life that he had semi revealed that he was involved with this. And so they knew that, but they couldn't prove anything. So then they set up this sting and then it went from there. And then once he sort of confessed in this, sting operation with this person, then it went to downhill from there.
Yes, he was, I think his time, I think he's like in life, in prison for life. So was it easier to forgive that you saw some justice for your girlfriend, or did that not really matter? It's so long ago. I'm not sure if I recall if I was thinking either way, but mm-hmm. But I think finding the person who did it was important just for safety matters.
Mm-hmm. And curiosity and just, you know, who was it that did this? I, knowing the person to a certain degree, I mean, because we had hired him and had interactions with him. He wasn't a hundred [00:27:00] percent there, if you know what I mean. Oh, okay. Just so, I don't wanna use the word simple, but I use the word just not a hundred percent.
You know, the elevator didn't go a hundred percent to the top. And I think it was not planned. I believe that it was just a sexual advance go bad, and he went to a point of no return, that she's gonna say something, I'm gonna get into trouble. And the only way to stop this is to end her life.
Mm-hmm. And I believe that's what occurred and what happened. So he was single, he was in his thirties. Mm-hmm. Uh, and you know, a lot of sexual predators are kind of in that category. I don't know if he was or wasn't. I don't know. And there was no other charges in other parts of his life. But that's kind of how that unfolded.
Ian, you know, at this point, I'm obviously very, very sad. She was an amazing girl. And being my grad prom date had sort of a. Not sort of had a significance sort of in my history, in my life as well, but I was just thankful that justice was [00:28:00] done and those things were discovered. And I'm just saying to those people at watch who are listening, that, you know, no matter what happens, we have these choices to be able to move to the next level.
I mean, I'm thankful Diana, for your ministry and Ministries like you that help people to kind of bridge that gap from where they are to where they need to do or some of the work that we do as well. So, you know, example is my parents, my mom mm-hmm. Still has not processed this adult child of alcoholic.
Her behavior is around it. Mm-hmm. In interesting enough, my sister who is in her fifties, and I hopefully she doesn't watch this, is you know, some of the tendencies are there too. Like, I know my parents won't watch it. But you know, if one of my family members watch it, is that, that worry side, that anxiety side that gets passed down?
Yes. Now and obviously my depression side came out of that family dynamic. Mm-hmm. And then with my dad, never saying, never having a compliment. I think he just emotionally was unable to do it. Mm-hmm. Now, what's [00:29:00] really fun is my kids are 25 and 24 now, and they're very developed and skilled individuals.
My wife Brenda, is a school teacher, so we're both in the professional development fields. Mm-hmm. And for their age. The kids are amazing. Of course, parents are biased about this, but they really mess with grandpa and grandma now. Oh. So my daughter will go in there, grandpa, we really, really, really love you.
We really do. Just waiting to see if he'll say anything. And then he'll go, so he'll mumble and then he'll kind of be embarrassed. He'll look down. And it's not that he doesn't have any emotions, but the kids kind of know that. And they just, because grandparents can't mess with their grandkids that way.
And then my son will do the same thing with them. And so from that point of view, we've just loved on them, accepting them for where they're at. I feel badly for them that they haven't been able to brace everything that they could. You know, when we're in the stressful situation, we are in the world right now.
They have just taken the [00:30:00] worry of the whole world upon their shoulders. Right? You know, God's very clear in his word. Fear is from the enemy. Mm-hmm. You know, it doesn't mean stupid, but there's not one scripture that I'm aware of unless you want to correct me, Diana, that says, you know what? Being fearful a little bit's.
Okay. Everything is fear. Not Well, you know, God says, he gives you fear so you don't jump off the edge of a cliff or, bungee jump off of Well, I have bungee jump, but I hear what you're saying is that, that fight or flight, yeah. That's a healthy fear. It keeps you from doing something really stupid.
Mm-hmm. But, and then when we get into the scripture, you know, fear fear of the Lord is really a reverence for 'em if you get into the Greek and the Hebrew. Mm-hmm. Is that it's reverence for them and it's honoring of them. And in that's part of the problem in the global society right now.
There's no fear of him. There's no reverence for God anymore. No. And so it's a godless society in many ways. That's why people are acting out when you take [00:31:00] God out, then you get these situations where people are spiritualists and they really are acting on their own. And the enemy is controlling them.
Mm-hmm. Exactly. And their flesh. Yeah. Well, for sure. And if it's not modeled for you and we teach that in our development factors model that as an observer, as a child of the relationships around you, that's all you know to do. Yeah. And of course we think that life is around social media, that it's around podcasts like this, but there was none of that.
Mm-hmm. Back 50, 60 years ago. And in fact, the TV was just even coming in and some of the examples there, and most of the examples were way more wholesome. Yeah. And loving back then. I think the. The most amount of violence was on gun smoke. Uh, I love that show. Of course. I mean, those of us that are older, remember that one?
That was great. So part of what, you know, I wanna encourage the listeners [00:32:00] is, people do the best that they can with what they know. My mom has told me that she loves me, but it's kind of an awkward thing. It's a thing that she does there. If I say that I love her, then she would say, well, me too.
Um, but not everybody is that way. And then you talk about intimacy. We used to joke with my parents that said, how do we exist? You guys never touch each other. Like, how did it even happen? Like, was it an accident while you were sleeping or something? So we used to just, we joked about that because there was zero.
Intimacy between them. And but I think that again, was cultural and that was part of it. Now, when we think about ministry and spiritual life, and again, the, hopefully this reaches people and it touches your heart for the I went to a church that really nice people, but the services were equivalent to a funeral.
Oh yeah. And then the other one is, is when you have the theology and the mindset that you do in that group, they were one of the, some of the most miserable people [00:33:00] that I knew, and this was the Christian Church. I said, well, why would I wanna be part of this? Right. 16, 17, 18, 19, I really fell off and I was crazy, wild and everything.
Went to college found out that, uh, man, I could buy four cases of beer for 20 bucks back there in the province of Alberta. And the drinking age was 18 and that's what I was. And so it was a crazy time for me. But then when I got into my later years of my twenties, 26, 27, I was invited to a Bible study by a friend of mine and I said, I don't know.
Like I always knew God was there. Mm-hmm. But I really didn't wanna have anything to do with him. I wasn't vile. There was some people that were violent. I was just disinterested in Christian people. Mm-hmm. The number one reason that I left the church were Christians. Yep. At least in my head.
But I was around 25, 26 and I went to this Bible study and that this friend of mine, he had, it was a business owner and he had it one Saturday a month. And I walked in this room and [00:34:00] here are these Christians telling jokes and having fun. And it says those two things don't coexist with being a Christian.
So he is having fun, he is telling jokes, he's enjoying himself. It wasn't a legalistic pet. And abyss. I said, what? And so all of a sudden my eyes were started to open up and then the spirit, oh no man, the spirit's gonna come. I might even cry. But he came to me because he had me tagged for this kinda work, right?
Is he says, Ken, it's not about you and them, it's about you and me. Mm-hmm. So when we have issues with other people, it's always about going vertical. People will always disappoint you. And then his other, his next word to me was clear. He says, and Ken, when were you? Perfect. So none of us are perfect. And so, you know, some of the most judgmental people I've ever met were, have been in the Christian environment, right.
That legalistic kind of side. And I said, okay, fine. [00:35:00] Now moving towards it. And that's when I was baptized in a friend's pool, I think it was 28 years of age, and started to go on this journey. And then later on started doing more work for Ministries and said, you know what? I really want to hone my, ministry side and decided to.
Take additional biblical studies. Mm-hmm. And then be ordained actually through a friend of mine who, he has a pastor of a church, but he also is one of our associates. 'cause we license other people, around the world to use our tools to serve their community. So this pastor was using it to serve his team and all his team members were going through it.
And he also was doing community outreach. And he says, no, we'll, Andor and you. Ordain you under our, CEEC banner. So there's probably about 4,000 kind of interdenominational groups that are under this banner, and that's why I'm ordained under that. I think, I don't know if I mentioned this in the podcast we were together yesterday, or the session yesterday, is I don't ever see myself being quote unquote a pastor of [00:36:00] a church, but doing extended ministry, helping people in ministry and leadership.
I've, done a lot of retreats for leadership mm-hmm. For denominations because I can bring the expertise as a leadership in professional development consultants and well as a consultant to bear with the ministry context. And so it's just adding, and that's where I love actually doing the work.
We have a local church, one of the larger ones, and the youth minister is a friend of mine. He also does apologetics. And so what we started to do is do his leadership group on our personality. I have a book called, why Aren't You More Like Me? Mm-hmm. And every once or twice a year, we would do retreats for those youth leaders that were 18 to 30 years of age.
And in that moment I said, you know what? God has created us uniquely, but also perfectly for the assignments that he has for us in life. It's our responsibility to figure out [00:37:00] what that is. So, Dr. Pastor Randy, would get up front and he would say, next to accepting Christ. He says, I think this is one of the most important things you could learn, because every single person on this planet has a personal style.
Other people call it a personality. Mm-hmm. And you are gonna bring that to bear in everything you do, every relationship you touch, every work piece, and responsibility you do. And it's not right, it's not wrong. You are uniquely created for the purposes that he has for you and the plan he has for you and the assignments he has for you and every.
Personality or personal style has related strengths and stuff. Challenges, I guess. So I need to be responsible for that. I have, if I didn't have the strengths and tenacity that I was naturally born with, no way, I would've had the fortitude or resilience to overcome some of the things that this company's been through and some of the things that have been in front of me in my life.
Wow. On the other hand, you don't want me to [00:38:00] be the auditor of your ministry books 'cause I'll just say it close enough because I absolutely. I might have an MBA, but I really dislike the minute details. I'm really an idea person, even though I've written 4 million words. The words are through ideas to influence people to improve their lives.
Mm-hmm. To write a textbook on trigonometry is, I need him to come here and I'm gonna go to heaven quicker. I'm never gonna write. So part of those of you that are watching our ability to say no is equally important as our ability to say yes. Mm-hmm. So our responsibility as individuals, as believers say, everybody says, okay, the're great commission to share his word with other people.
Okay. But where doing what for you? So that is the bigger question for us individually, to say, where does he want you to go? What does he want you to do? And you know, if I would've followed the [00:39:00] cultural pressures, I'd still be on the dairy farm. Mm-hmm. With my. Two brothers. And so my youngest brother has taken over the dairy farm and now his son is looking at taking over and his son has got a son.
So now you're talking five or six generations. That's great. That's fine. But that's not what I am called to do. So my encouragement is, if you're watching this, there's two things. First of all, don't let the pressures of the past and other people's expectation drive you. Really only a Holy Spirit can lead you.
Mm-hmm. And some close advisors that have wisdom and insights or even a word of knowledge for you that you wouldn't know that's driven from the Holy Spirit, not from here. The second one is that is true for you and you're a parent, or you're a significant other, or you're a partner. Why wouldn't you honor that uniqueness of the people around them as well?
A friend of mine who's a believer, who was part owner of the company that I now own a hundred percent and I, but I've known him for 40 years. He, when we first got involved with this, he says, [00:40:00] Ken, my son's really. He's not gonna amount to anything. He's the laziest kid I've ever met. But what he was saying, because my friend is a driven entrepreneur like this guy at 70 works 12 hours a day, six days a week, even now, and you can't stop him.
And that's just who he is. It's the fabric of who he is. He was a dairy farmer as well, so you, he's already got that in his gene. His son, who was not really lazy, was just extremely easygoing. So his style was just Dad, no chill. Just chill. Dad, whatever. You know what he is now? Pediatric doctor. Aw. So, sometimes we go there and we judge people and we say, you're not gonna melt to anything.
You're lazy. You shouldn't be doing this. And in fact, God had a calling for, his name is John. To be a doctor and think about his nature. He's caring for kids, he has a heart for kids, he has the temperament for kids, he loves on them as a doctor. And then [00:41:00] gifted on that, what a better place to be now. The relationship between father and son have never been better as part of it.
You know, as you think about this, how can we create a space, a safe space for individuals like you or me to go on this journey of discovery with me, not because of what I say or don't say, but together so that I can help you realize your potential. And one of the things that is, um, I do still kind of get a little miffed at how Christians can put other people down for certain reasons.
Absolutely. Or just people in general. I had a point, and now it's gone. It'll come back to me here in a moment. But part of this is that. We don't want to be judging people about their direction and putting them down for certain directions. Mm-hmm. Because now what we're doing is we're spilling our fear into their space.
The reality is the enemy will bring people around you to discount you. We even talked about that yesterday in [00:42:00] the, Christian business owners call. Mm-hmm. Is that the enemy wants to discount your worth. Yes. If I go, I have zero people says, Ken, you still get nervous speaking in front of groups. I says, never.
Never. If it's a thousand people, 2000 people, 3000 people, I love it. I'm energized. You ever get nervous? Getting on a show? Never does not happen. However, if I'm asked to preach in front of a church, then the worthiness, the enemy comes after me and says, Ken, do you know who you are? What gives you the right to speak about Christ's righteousness in front of these people?
And so my, so I want to call it wisdom mm-hmm. To individuals, is that the enemy wants to discount that, there's a big difference between confidence and arrogance is that we wanna be confident in who he is. And yes, he has asked me to share his word with others in the context, and I've done preaching for people online and in services at churches, [00:43:00] and then also led, you know, Ministries through our work and leadership and personality and wellness and all these things.
But I'm still working on this thing where the enemy wants to attack this. Who do you think you are? Hmm. When he called out Moses, when Moses says, well, I'm not equipped for this. We use the, scripture from Gideon. I'm the weakest of my clan. Why? Why choose my me? And I started to think about that.
Think about all the people that God chose. To lead and be in front. Half of them are murderers. I mean, I'm being demonstrative, but Right. So, hello. That didn't exclude them. Then you have this Pharisee who is killing Christians on the weekend, who wrote nearly half of the New Testament. Absolutely. What are you talking about?
Because he's trying to demonstrate to you, me and everybody watching the transformational nature of his spirit and that there is nothing that's not [00:44:00] possible if you're in his will and following it. I will never, in spite of all, like you were talking off air about these, I'll call it new age kind of positive thinking stuff.
Mm-hmm. I will never be a basketball player. It's just not gonna Me neither. At five nine. It is not gonna happen. It's just, I can have all the goals in the world. I can visualize all I want. It's just not going to happen. But if it's in the context of his will, and here's the other responsibility.
As believers, it's your responsibility to find out what that will is. Where does he want you to go? And again, to be really careful, be really cautious to only get feedback from those people who are trusted advisors that know the spirit. Oh, I know what I was gonna say earlier is my family, when I decided to leave my sales job to start my own sales training, even then my parents said, my dad said to me, why would you leave a company that gives you a free [00:45:00] car?
And then they give you lunches. Two, what a what an idiot you are to leave that job, to start this training business. Well, that company, by the way, three or four years later, went bankrupt. So that was kind of a little get back at your dad moment there. And they sort of fine. But that's how people are thinking.
They're well-meaning they're trying to protect you. But don't absorb their fear. Don't let their doubt come into your space. Sometimes you have to be extremely guarded about I'll call it the unbelief of others around you. When Jesus didn't chastise the disciples very often, but he chastised them about fear in the boat and the water.
Mm-hmm. But he also chastised their unbelief when they couldn't heal the crippled individual who was come on, help me with the word Diana. Possessed. And they said, what? Why couldn't we cast out the devil? They said, because of your unbelief. So [00:46:00] sometimes we need to make sure that we guard ourselves and be around those people that really are there with us, Diana, on that side, I'm getting a little preachy now instead of just a podcast on those.
I love it. I love it. But my, and we talk a lot about boundaries that you have to have boundaries, physical boundaries, as well as mental boundaries. Who are you hanging out with? Who are you allowing to influence you? That's super important. Oh, and in fact, I was talking about this on another, podcast just this morning that I was on, is that, the research is clear who you associate with matters, and the proof is, is that your five closest associates will be the highest level of influence.
In other words, if we look at your five closest friends, I can almost predict. With certainty what you are going to be like, how you're gonna think, how you're going to act, because you're constantly influencing each other. Now I remember, and I know you're almost getting close to the end of the show, but one of my [00:47:00] colleagues, not a believer, but very wise guy, Dr.
Marshall Goldsmith, one of the top coaches in the world, wrote the book Triggers and What Got you here won't get you there. And I was at an invite only event in New York with him and 20 or 30 other people in the coaching industry. And one of the things he stated, and this is so true, especially people with trauma and they have family, is that a lot of times you want to go to a new level.
So Diana, you're going to a new level, you're doing the podcast, you're doing this ministry, you're growing, I'm growing. Your past, the people that you grew up in high school or the people that know you or your family, they wanna keep you where you were. They don't want to you to go where you're going. So an example is when I got my doctorate degree, we had a family dinner and it was kind of a celebration.
And one of my family members said to me with almost with the stain, we are never calling you doctor. Hmm. And part of it is that they knew me for who I was 30 years ago. [00:48:00] And then of course I left the farm. I went on my own started to develop relationships and connections with amazing people around the world.
Is that some, not that I'm better than them, but I am different. And so I don't really share what I do with my family members. And that's what Marshall was teaching in his group is that sometimes who you become doesn't fit the people that you used to hang out with. It doesn't mean you don't hang out with them.
You just limit that you are being with your family. Diana, what are you doing? He says, well, I'm doing ministry work and I'm running a podcast and just really helping people to overcome trauma. And that's it. That's all it's done. We don't talk about the great people we met or 'cause what happens is you're seen as being arrogant and who do you think you are rather than colleagues where you're just sharing your excitement about this growth.
Oh yeah. I had relatives come up to me 'cause they heard me, I was a guest on somebody else's podcast. Oh, she can't do that. You know, she's gonna hurt somebody. She's not a licensed counselor. She's not this, she's not that. [00:49:00] And I have had training.
I get considerable training. I'm not a licensed counselor, but the program that I follow, was written by a trauma counselor and a theology professor. So that's called Mending the Soul, by the way. Mm-hmm. Anyway, yeah, they're definitely, we're all already people telling me, well, you shouldn't be doing that.
Who are you? You're not some, super professional girl. You're just Diana, you're just an abuse survivor. That's all you are kind of thing. So, yeah. Well, what happens a lot of times is envy can come in, jealousy can come in. They wanna still contain you and me to who we were, but it's also still their perception is true with, one of my family members where, they go on, oh, you, you're always this person that talks too much.
That's what my dad said to me when I was a teenager. And of course he was putting me down for my style and what I do. And it was interesting because even though he [00:50:00] says, Ken, you talk too much and put me down for my style. I was the person that asked to be m Mc of banquets when I was 16 and 17 years of age because I would be quick on my feet, I'd be able to have a responsiveness.
And I also took. The responsibility of being an mc of a banquet. Seriously, because have you ever been to these banquets that's run by volunteers where you have just a terrible mc and they ruin the night? Oh yeah. Well, the opposite. I said, no. I take this as a profession. Mm-hmm. And recently, interesting enough, in spite of sort of the history, my dad has a group called The Pioneers, which are elderly people have been in our community for, 60, 70, 80, 90 years.
And they asked me to be the mc. And so then I've done it for two years. They won't hold it this year. And people come and said, how are you able to do that? Because the people that were doing it before were on the board. They were, dementia was already setting in and they were trying to lead this banquet and it was just a [00:51:00] disaster, nice people.
But they were way out of their element and they shouldn't have been MCing it. Here's a family trying to contain, you said, who do you think you are? Put you down for talking yet. It's my profession. It's what I do. I've been paid or have conducted 3000 presentations around the world in the last 32 years.
Hello? What? Like, help me out here and just like your family, my dad is, just really unsure about what I really do. If I say I'm doing some speaking or training for like Chrysler, well, he gets that, but producing psychological tools and assessments and all the other work, like we were talking around purpose.
No, they, they wouldn't get it. So part of, you know, all of that story from both of us for the viewers and listeners is that it's okay to move on, but also you don't have to share your new life with your old life. Yeah. And that you can be that person for them, but guard your [00:52:00] future sort of, expounding about what you're gonna do and writing these books and creating these e-course and all that kind of stuff, they don't care.
They're not there. So it's interesting because my wife and I, when we go to family events we talk about emotional intelligence and we talk about interpersonal intelligence and we talk about self-awareness. But one of the things we do at family events, we, we have a game. We say, could we go all night with 20 people in the room with three hours a time?
We're not a single person will ask us a question about us and we can do it multiple times. So we go to an event and Diana, how are you doing and what's new at the ministry? And, how's the family doing? And I heard you went on this trip, a gifted conversationalist is a person who asks questions, right?
But what we note is that nobody asks myself or my wife a question. Now, there's the odd occasion where it does occur. It does happen, but it's extremely [00:53:00] rare. So people like to talk about themselves. So we might say, well listen, we're thinking about going to Hawaii. Oh, we went to Hawaii two years ago and we're over here.
And all of a sudden they're telling a story, which is all about being self-centered about their trip to Hawaii two years ago. And we just shared what, where we're going to Hawaii. They didn't ask about where you're going, when you're going, who's going? No. They went on to their own. This is a conversational skillset that most of the population does not have.
And by the way, for those of you watching play the game. Go out there and, don't talk about yourself. If somebody talks about something, make sure you respond to it, but then transition back to a question and see if you can go all night without anybody asking a question about yourself. And then here's the other one.
Don't be offended by it. Give it up. Offense is a choice. You know, we talked about trauma and we talked about forgiveness, but being offended is also a choice. Mm-hmm. Dr. David's Burn's work around, trauma, if you've ever read his book feel good [00:54:00] is, I mean, it's got about 500 pages at four point font.
Is that my response is always a choice. Yes. And even Dr. Gottman in his work around relationships is that once I get over 100 beats per minute non-athletic, I'm no longer rational. Well, that's where we have trauma. We have abuse, we have crazy things that happen. One of our number one constituents, we serve as law enforcement.
So, Dr. Anderson, who founded the company, was a criminology professor. And then one of my co-authors, Dr. Mitch dti, teaches law enforcement officers emotional intelligence. What's the most dangerous situation for law enforcement to go into domestic dispute? Yes. Why? Because people are irrational. Mm-hmm.
So I've let myself get ramped up. I'm now biologically I'm no longer in control of my emotions. Mm-hmm. And now I will say and do things that will regret. Now I'm completely [00:55:00] outta control. I mean, there was this situation that happened in Palm Springs a couple, two, three years ago where there was abusive situation carrying on.
The officers broke up, the couple started to contain him, and then she got a gun out and killed both officers. Oh. So that's why officers in these environments, they said you have to watch your back because it's completely. Unpredictable as part of it. So I mean, there's obviously lots of things that we've covered today in the show and we've gone for our 55 minutes.
Anything else, Diana, that you wanted to maybe poke your head into before we close? Well, we could go down a whole bunch of rabbit trails on a lot of things that you said.
You said so many great nuggets. But maybe for our listeners, perhaps. Give like a list of actionable things that they can do right now. Now just before I do it, so that we don't miss you, I have a gift for everybody. Yes. And [00:56:00] so I'm gonna give you access to the e-copy,
Of my the Quest for Purpose book in the get that is go to my speaker site, which is Ken Keys, K-E-N-K-E-I s.com/faithful. You'll in that hidden URL and of course you'll be able to put it in the show notes, Diana as well. Mm-hmm. Is that you'll be able to go there and then download the e version of the book.
What I am sometimes shocked at is that I give away this book is that the amount of people who don't. Opt in to get the book. It is a roadmap, a step-by-step process to get clear about who and what and where, and what you should be doing in your life and all components. And now it's gonna take work, it's gonna take time, but where are you gonna be in six months if you don't do it?
So, uh, it's there. I spent six months going through this process with my coach, Mike McManus, you know, driving three hours each way when it wasn't pertinent. So when I think about actionable steps, [00:57:00] and you think about people's lives, first of all, if you don't have a purpose in life, then your purpose is to find your purpose.
And so that becomes the focus, rather than trying to say, I better be doing this, or I just take a breath. Allow yourself time and space. I've noticed that the Holy Spirit is never frantic. He is on time and he is moving forward, but he is never Fran frantic. And so, chaos is not from him.
So just be peaceful, be quiet, and start paying attention and asking yourself this question, if you are doing what you're doing right now in all contexts of your life 20 years from now, is that okay? And if you say no, then that obviously infers change. So what is it that you're gonna move towards? Don't freak out.
Don't try to do it all. I mean, if I'm trying to be a marathon runner this morning and then I said, I'm gonna run and do a marathon tonight, I'm gonna be dead. Just, I gotta [00:58:00] train for it. Yep. So life is the same way. The other one is for us and our resources, is that there's all different ways to get to clarity.
So we have assessments and they're all learning assessments. So a values assessment, a self-worth assessment, a personality assessment we have a self-worth one I might have mentioned that already. And so all of those become puzzle pieces to create the clarity. The other one, Diana, is, is get a group that's gonna support you, look around and don't judge the five closest friend, but say are the five closest friends in a space that are gonna help you to go where you need to go.
And sometimes one of my mentors used to say, you know what, Ken? Sometimes you need to fire clients. He says, why? He says, you've outgrown them. The client that you're serving now is not the client that you started with five years ago. So you know, like my fees and what I do is completely different than what it was 15 years ago.
So [00:59:00] now start paying attention to that. And then the other thing is, is that life takes effort. If you get finish watching the show and do nothing and do no action steps, then you're gonna have the same thing tomorrow. So what are the steps that you can take? Start moving towards it, download the book. It's got a complete roadmap.
And the other thing we'll make sure that my contact information is there, Diana, is that if people have questions, reach out, I'll respond as, as best as I can in the time that's allotted there. But I'll respond to you to be able to say, Hey, how can we help you or call you and your ministry? Mm-hmm. And some of the coaching that is available there.
So that'll get you started. And again, don't try to do it all overnight. Just take one step at a time. The research shows is that if you try to three things at wants to change it, you have about a 15% likelihood of implementing it and a 75% success rate if it's just one thing. So one thing at a time, progress forward and keep listening to Diana's podcast.
[01:00:00] And that should be the other step that they do too. Right. Wow, this was so awesome. I cannot wait to read that book and I hope that our listeners will download the book and get busy reading it and putting those things into practice. We will probably have to have you back again in the future because I can just tell you have so much more to share with us to help anytime to be able to serve and support and, you know, go granular in some of these other areas that we can talk about.
For sure, anytime, Diana, So today, just choose one thing, one small thing to get you closer to your healing goals. God bless. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend.
You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org [01:01:00] where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.

Diana announces a break from the podcast until January and explains some of the reasons why. Diana gives updates on family events that have happened this year that influenced her decision. Diana will be featuring her favorite and most popular guests from the past 5 years during her break. She lists what projects she plans on doing with her time away from the podcast and how you can still reach out to her for help or resources. 

 In this episode, Ashley shares her powerful story of overcoming domestic abuse. Ashley recounts her tumultuous marriage marked by emotional and psychological abuse, her journey through a traumatic childbirth experience, and her eventual separation. She discusses the impact of her childhood abuse, her struggle with self-doubt, and the challenges of single motherhood with special needs children. Ashley also shares how her faith and community support played vital roles in her healing journey. The episode concludes with Ashley's advice for others in abusive situations to prioritize self-care and seek supportive communities.
00:00 Introduction to the Podcast00:34 Meet Ashley: A Survivor's Story01:38 Ashley's Background and Journey04:19 Challenges of Parenting Special Needs Children05:12 Coping During the Pandemic06:55 Ashley's Upbringing and Faith Journey14:21 Meeting Her Husband and Early Red Flags16:15 The Birth of Ashley's Children21:34 Experiencing Abuse and Control23:26 Realizing the Extent of Abuse24:15 Deciding to Leave25:42 The Second Separation32:05 Ongoing Abuse During Divorce35:02 Healing and Support38:56 Faith and Moving Forward41:53 Closing Thoughts and Encouragement
 
Website: https://dswministries.org
Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/
Social media links:
Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879
Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma
Affiliate links:
Our Sponsor: 753 Academy:
https://www.753academy.com/
Can’t travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here!
https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP
An easy way to help my ministry:
https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/
A donation link:
https://dswministries.org/donate/
 
Ashley Transcript
[00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels.
They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works.
Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes.
Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help.
Now here is Diana.
So today on the wounds of the Faithful podcast, we have a survivor story today. So please welcome Ashley to the show. Thanks for coming on the podcast and sharing a bit of yourself with us.
Hi. You're welcome. I'm glad to be here. I haven't seen you since the girls. We went over to Starbucks for an outing and we had that incident with the spider.
Yes, I know. Multiple spiders crawling around the table and on you. Oh, well I thought that Kelly had killed the one on the ground and then we found out there was another [00:02:00] one and it was on my shoulder and you wanna see me freak out? Okay, that's how you get me to freak out is a spider. So here we are trying to kill the spider. But we had a good time.
It was fun. Just fun to get out. It was a hot day. We were out there roasting in the heat, but it was just fun to get out and, have some girl time. Right? Yes, definitely. We needed it.
So, let's, get to know you a little better. So give us a little introduction about yourself. What general part of the country are you from, and are you married? How many kids you got, what do you do for a living? That kind of stuff. Okay. Well my name is Ashley, and I live in Arizona.
I've been here for five years now. I was living in North Carolina with my husband and our family for, we were on the East coast for about, oh gosh, probably about eight years or so. And, living in, in North Carolina, Virginia, and [00:03:00] that area. So I met Diana through Mending the Soul. I joined because I have been separated from my husband for, about a year now.
We've been separated twice and that was due to abuse that was going on in the marriage. So I have a history of abuse in my life, starting from when I was little. There was abuse that happened outside of the home, with. People that were slightly older than me. And that was more of like a, sexual abuse or molestation kind of situation.
And then getting married, I thought it was a good relationship. I thought we were a good team. And we, I think it, it was okay for a while until we had children and that's when things started. Unraveling and a lot of patterns started popping up all over the place of, all kinds of a abuse that, not physical, but it was [00:04:00] emotional, mental, psychological, spiritual abuse, all of those.
And I'm still kind of working through and wrestling with the effects that that had on me. And it's still, I mean, I have good days and I have really, really hard days. So it's kind of, it's still, even though it's been a year of being apart, it's still all over the place. Mm-hmm. Um, but I do feel like I'm making progress and, many, the soul did help with that along with counseling.
So that's where I'm at right now and I'm currently going to school to get, to become a speech language pathology assistant. And, I have about just one semester left of that. And then I know I'm so excited to, hopefully get to work with kids that are, you know, having difficulties for whatever reason.
And I am a special needs mom. My, middle child has autism and. So that's been a journey. And then my youngest also has struggles in certain areas of learning. So, yeah, this [00:05:00] will help me also, while being able to help other people. So that's where I'm at right now.
So your special needs kids, what kind of challenges does that bring as a single mom and going through abuse?
Mm. Oh gosh. I hadn't really thought of it in that context before, but it's a lot because you're, as a parent, you're trying to focus on their needs and trying to meet them where they're at, but at the same time, you're trying to meet yourself where you're at. So it's constantly trying to think of everyone's needs and trying to meet everyone where they are, including myself.
So it is, it's a lot to think through. Every day. Yeah, but I love 'em and I mean, it's amazing to see their growth and, yeah. But it is definitely a struggle. So your kids free today, get a break, but how have you been coping during the pandemic with your kids? [00:06:00] What have you found that works?
Yeah, so thankfully I've been talking to family about this also, our schedule. Because of Kim, his running his elopement, we have a hard time going to a lot of places already. So even before the pandemic, we didn't go to a lot of stores or we mostly spent our time outside and at home. So that really, I think, helped set us up for this situation because it wasn't a huge jump, you know, from being out around people all the time to nothing.
So we were already kind of ready in some ways. So it's a lot of time outside as much as we can. The kids love roller skating. They love swimming. They love, yeah, just being outside doing anything they can. So that, and then, even doing games inside the house together is fun, like pillow fights or box, like my youngest likes to, like, he's practicing boxing and he loves to, [00:07:00] like I put on the oven MITs, and then he has his little boxing gloves, which is so cute.
It's, it's fun. And, just trying to get their energy out. And then I work out also, so we're trying to like get all that energy from all of us. So it's, that's been good. Well, it's pretty funny. When we've had group, you know, the kids are there, three boys, like climbing all over her and poking her and mom, mom, mom.
And she's trying to focus on, her part in the group, and, you just do the best you can, right? Yep. Exactly. That's, I think it's learning to just roll with it, so it's like, yeah, and like the pandemic continues to teach us that I think is, we just have to be able to roll with it as it comes.
Wow. Oh, so tell us a little bit more about your upbringing. Were you raised in a Christian home? Not with my mom and my stepdad, who I lived with later, but my grandparents, who I lived with when I was little, they took me to the Nazarene Church and I was a part of that [00:08:00] community, so I was a part of a church.
I don't particularly remember learning about Jesus or, salvation in particular. I just remember just in general learning about. God in general. And so that's kind of how I was raised. And then when I moved in with my mom and my stepdad, they're not a part of any faith community. So I would go either with friends to church, and then when I was older I would just go by myself, drove, I drove myself there.
And and that's kind of how it started. What kind of relationship would you say you had with God? Was it personal? Was it God was distant or? Uh, I think when I was very little, I didn't feel like I had a relationship really, but always as I got older, I remember always feeling like he was there.
I remember always feeling like I didn't quite understand how I knew that, but he just, I just felt like he was there with me. And then as I [00:09:00] continued. Learning more and especially after Ava, or sorry, especially after my daughter was born, I really realized the connection with Jesus and got, had my relationship with God through him.
And so that's when it really became very personal. So like in the last 10 years, more so. Do you remember when you actually made that decision? Was there a day? Yeah, I don't remember the date, but, we had started having struggles in our marriage pretty soon after Ava was born and I was feeling so confused and so lost and like I needed to be doing more.
And so I was going through the Love Dare book and in there it was really a really good book for that moment. And it lays out. Scripture each day. And at the end, it gives you an opportunity to accept Jesus. And I remember being so blown away during that book because no one had ever explained to me the importance of Jesus [00:10:00] and what he did for me.
And so when I was like, why have I not heard this? Like, oh my gosh. And yeah. And so at the end I remember just sitting at the table crying, crying, like I could not stop crying. And it was like something inside of me just clicked and, yeah, so I said the prayer and, every, a lot of things changed after that and continued to change.
Wow. That's, I've never heard a story like that. You know, I had The Love Dare book, actually, the guy I was dating. Mm-hmm. That was abusive to me, gave me that book, and it was really strange. He tried to get me to go back to my ex-husband, who was my one abuser, and, it was an excellent book, but at that time.
There wasn't going to be any parting of the Red Sea Miracle with my ex-husband. I kept telling this guy, we're already divorced. It's over. Yes, I'm moving on. Yes. But it's amazing that you found Jesus through that book. I praise the [00:11:00] Lord for that. I know, and that's the, I think it's interesting because I started reading that book to help with the marriage.
And it did somewhat, but I think the most, it was cool because God met me where I was doing what I was doing, you know? And it didn't matter why I started it. Yeah. It's just so cool. Amazing. So what were your teenage years like? Did you have a lot of self-confidence growing up? Oh gosh. I would say no.
I mean, middle school was really hard for me. I had a lot of rejection and embarrassing things happen, and they kind of linked with the abuse. That happened when I was younger. And so that kind of, I spiraled quite a bit there and I just, I think, decided that I wanted to protect myself. And so I decided, okay, I'm gonna get straight A's in school.
I'm gonna run track and I'm gonna do [00:12:00] the best I can with that and I'm not gonna get in trouble. And I just made all these like promises to myself, I think, to protect myself. So I think I appeared on the outside probably like I had. I a lot of confidence, but it really was protection and so I don't feel like it was confidence at all.
It was all rooted in fear and trying to protect myself. So, no, I don't think I did. Mm. Now how did your grandparents play a part in your life? They were very significant. Mm-hmm. And they, yeah, they still, they're a huge part still. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to put into words everything that they've done, but
they gave me a safe place. They've always been a safe place for me. And no matter what they, I have never felt abandoned by them. I've never felt judged by them. I've never felt, like they didn't try to understand me so they've always, they've been a consistent, safe place. Throughout my whole life.
And [00:13:00] so even in those hard times, I, I did always know they were there. And, I would call my grandma instead of talking to my mom or anyone else, I would always call my grandma and talk to her. And she kind of helped me work through in college when I finally, I think I was hitting another breaking point in college when I was drinking a lot and really depressed.
Honestly, I was running track at a college and. Trying to perform still, but then partying also. And there were these two parts of me that were like colliding and it was so painful and I didn't know how to get out of this situation. And so she helped me a lot through that also. And then later with my realizing the abuse with Dan, with my husband, and deciding to make changes there, she helped me a lot through that Also.
Hmm. So yeah, her support has meant the world. I didn't really grow up with traditional grandparents. I didn't, my grandfathers died long before I was even cognitive, [00:14:00] and my dad's mother died when I was seven. And then my mother's mother, we didn't have a very close relationship because she was a very abusive person, and my mother mm-hmm.
Didn't, my mother didn't want us around her and she really was a, nasty person. But, so I didn't really grow up with grandparents. I think that's why I was always friends with a lot of senior citizens. Were my good friends because I didn't have grandparents. I had, teachers and coaches and, the next door neighbor.
Mm-hmm. I kind of clung too. So it was a blessing that you had have grandparents to be there for you and guide you through these tough times? Yes. Yeah. It's, it is. I mean, thinking about if I didn't have them, it's been hard enough. Even having that support. So I can't imagine not having that support.
It's been, it literally feels like a gift. That God has put there to help me [00:15:00] get through all of this. And, yeah. So I'm just really thankful. So we're gonna transition to the unsavory part of the podcast. When did you meet your husband and were there any warning signs, that there was going to be abuse?
So we met, we were both attending Arizona State University and we met there. We were part of a co-ed business fraternity. And, we met at a party and we, I mean, I felt like right away that I wanted to be with this person, even though I didn't know him. As I was telling you before, like I was in a really unhealthy place.
All through college. It's because I, everything from my childhood hadn't been addressed and was still, all that pain was under the surface. And I think I was just trying to cover it up any way I could by drinking, sleeping with people. And, that's kind of where our relationship started.
That's how it started in that [00:16:00] kind of context and. So we were both in a really unhealthy place. I think his, parents had just started the divorce process, I think when I met him. And he had a lot of pain from his childhood too. And so I think we both were just trying to cover up the pain. And so in the beginning I couldn't see any red flags because we were very similar, I think, in how we were.
Covering up things and living life. And so it wasn't until really, until we had kids, because my attention was divided between him and the kids and my, and needing to take care of myself once my attention was divided, that's when all of the. The pattern started bubbling up, so I couldn't see it until quite a bit later.
Mm. Wow. So when your children came along, you had a pretty dark time for you. Did you wanna share [00:17:00] about the, birth of your children? Yeah, I can. So my daughter's birth. Was overall good. We had to have a c-section because she was, she was not head down. She was bottom down and she did not wanna flip, which is totally, it's funny 'cause she's very, like kind of stubborn in her own way.
And so it's funny that she just was like, Nope. Like, I'm good right here. I'm not moving. And so yeah, the C-section went well and, but. I remember I felt so sad in the hospital. I was so happy to see her, but at the same time, I think seeing her face and seeing how vulnerable she was as a baby, I think triggered everything in me at a whole new level from what happened when I was younger.
So that's how her birth was difficult. And then, or my second child's birth. Was a slightly difficult Also, I was trying to have a [00:18:00] VBAC and the cord was wrapped around his, around his neck and his heart rate was dropping and so we had to go in for an emergency C-section. That one, went pretty well too.
Overall, given the circumstances and everything. So it wasn't until a lot, our third child's birth. That was really, really difficult. And during that I was trying for another vbac, which looking back I wish I had not done that. But I was trying because I felt like that's, I really wanted that experience.
And so I was trying and I found a doctor that would support me in doing that. And, um. It was, the birth was taking too long. I was kind of stalled in labor and they, I had an epidural and. I couldn't feel very much, but at one point I felt a pop. And this was as they were planning to get me into the [00:19:00] emerge, into the room to deliver, to via C-section.
They were already planning it. We were just trying to get in there once it was open and available. Mm-hmm. And I felt this pop as they were planning this. And, I didn't know to say anything because I didn't. No, anything was wrong. I couldn't feel any pain. And we get into the emergency room, no, still no one knows anything has happened.
And he's allowed to be awake and okay. And so I'm still awake and they find the, the rupture in my uterus. And I lost about probably half my blood and, and so that was very, very traumatic in and of itself. Getting out of the hospital was difficult because my blood still didn't look quite right to them.
My blood work and everything, they weren't happy with it. And so, but I went home. And decided not to get a blood transfusion. Just because I didn't feel comfortable with it. [00:20:00] I ended up developing a hematoma and an infection, and had to go back in the hospital and was on antibiotics. I think it was about a week I was in there and.
So when I came home, I was experiencing PTSD symptoms, but didn't understand that's what it was. Mm-hmm. I literally thought I was going to die all the time. I thought I was every minute of the day. Mm-hmm. I was checking to see what was happening in my body. Because I thought I was going to die for sure.
And so I kept wanting to go to the hospital because I felt like what if I'm, I missed the infection before, I didn't know I had this infection. No one was telling me that I looked sick, you know? And I could have died from that infection. And, so yeah, I kept wanting to go to the hospital to see a doctor, just to make sure I was okay.
And. I didn't understand what was happening to me, but at the time [00:21:00] he would tell me I didn't need to go to the doctor, you know, and yell at me that I, nothing was wrong with me, that I was fine telling me I didn't need to go to the doctor, making me feel bad about it. I was struggling to take care of the kids, because I was going through all this and not understanding what was happening.
So this is where I really, really started to know that something was wrong, in the marriage because of how he handled this situation. So. Yeah, this is his children that he's talking about Most, you know, normal people. If you're, if you're suffering and it involves your kids or your spouse, you're gonna take them to the hospital.
That's, that isn't normal. No. Even when I had the infection in my fever. I had started at home and I was shaking like I was, I couldn't stop. Like I would [00:22:00] shake out of the blue. My body would just, that's how far the infection had progressed. And he still was kind of telling me that I didn't need to go. But thankfully my doctor was like, you can come in tonight if you think you need to.
And I was like, yes, I need to. Yes. When can I be over there like yesterday? Yes. So was that the first time that you've experienced abuse by him or were there other stuff on top of the post pregnancy and delivery stuff? There was, I mean, there was stuff here and there definitely like control over money, like making me feel bad about buying groceries like that.
I spent too much, when I just, I mean I am very frugal. Like I love finding deals. I love all that. I mean, I am into that. I always have been. I am very particular about what I buy and mm-hmm. And I still, no matter how hard I tried to do a good [00:23:00] job, I would come home and it would not be good enough and it would be that I spent too much money.
And so, yeah, it's definitely control stuff. I saw I was happening before, but I kind of took it on as this is something I'm doing wrong. And so it wasn't until the medical stuff happened that I realized. That I started to realize a little bit that maybe it was something else. Yeah. You're not the only one that had that.
Mm-hmm. Had that problem with the spending money. I was in charge of getting groceries and buying all the Christmas gifts for his family, and it was always the same thing. You spent too much money and mm-hmm. And you bought too many groceries, like, well, why don't you try and get a full, week budget on a hundred bucks and see how good you do.
Exactly. Or you buy all the presents for your family and see how well you do on the budget you gave me. [00:24:00] Yeah. The control, the verbal and emotional abuse. Mm-hmm. It's not just physical folks. Your abuser can make your life a living hell without laying a finger on you. Yes, and I think that's what I'm realizing now is I still have physical, issues related to the abuse that happened when Elijah was born.
I have heart palpitations that I believe. Come from a mixture of what happened to me physically, but also what happened to me emotionally, that I felt so abandoned and so, confused during that time because of what was being told to me by, by my husband and. Yeah, and just realizing the extent that the damage goes, it's very different than, I mean, physical abuse and emotional abuse have some similarities, but Yeah.
The, depths doesn't change just because we can't see it [00:25:00] on the outside. Exactly. Mm-hmm. When did you decide, enough is enough? I need to get out now. Was there a specific day or an event? Well, there were two, I mean two, it happened twice. So it happened in North Carolina. He was continuing to escalate as far as like telling me he was suicidal, which I believe he is.
But he seems to, he uses it in certain ways to get me to stop doing things that he doesn't want me to be doing, like spending time by myself outside of the house or spending time with friends. Um. You know, not being able to have intimacy and things like that. So he uses that as a way to get me to stop.
And so that was escalating also. He had started using intimidation, punching walls in the house, that kind of thing. So, and the friend had [00:26:00] just, I had never, no one had ever told me that what was happening was abuse. And I didn't know. I honestly did not know. And someone had just. That who had come from an abusive marriage had pointed out to me that I had told her what was happening at home.
And she was like, that is abuse. And I was like, what? Are you serious? Mm-hmm. Like I was in shock that I didn't know that. And I think that was just a wake up call for me. When I have confronted it, he pushed back right against it and wanted me to come back home. He and, I, the kids and I had moved to a different house and, we're trying to figure out what to do and that's when I decided to move closer to my family.
And so that was the first time we got back together about nine months after we separated. 'cause I just, I think I. I was struggling physically to [00:27:00] handle everything on my own, plus dealing with my mental health. And it was really hard. And I think I was struggling with how am I going to do this? And I missed having someone to share life with.
I missed. And I thought, what if I'm wrong? What if I am, what if I'm wrong? And I'm just as messed up as he is? And, um, which I do have my stuff, but it's different. It's not the same. And so we got back together and then about, I think it was about three years after we got back together, all the same patterns had come back up.
Mm-hmm. And it had started transferring over to things happening with the kids that as far as control and just emotionally abusive language towards them. And when I started seeing how it was affecting the kids, that's when I decided. No, I cannot let this continue. Because seeing that affect them, how it could affect them [00:28:00] being exposed to that long term, I can't handle that.
So I think the kids have really, really helped me to do things for them and for myself that maybe I wouldn't, it would've taken me longer to do it if it was just for me, I think. So yeah, that's kind of how that happened. Yeah, I didn't have children early in the relationship. My ex didn't want kids right away, but then we were married about five to seven year mark then all of a sudden he decided he wanted to have children.
And by that time, I already knew I was trapped in a marriage that was abusive and I did not wanna bring children into this world and subject them to that. Because like you say, it's fun if it's just me, but now I have kids that I am in charge of and you know, it's going to affect them. So I just made the decision and I told him, I'm not having children.
Mm-hmm. [00:29:00] Sorry, I already have to deal with everything in the marriage that I didn't have. I wouldn't have had any, anything left. But, you made a lot of big points in that you didn't know that you were abused. And I was the same way. I was abused for 13 years and I used to call up my, one of my closest friends, and I used to cry every time.
You know, this man would do something horrible and I would cry, and what am I gonna do? And mm-hmm. And one day, you know, she tells me. I'm tired of you calling me up and telling me all your stories. Every time this man does something to you and you need to get out of there. He's an abusive man and I'm like, but the church won't let me get a divorce.
And she said, God is not going to not love you anymore [00:30:00] because you've made the choice to divorce this abusive man. That was the day that I, I woke up and I'm like, this is abuse. Mm-hmm. All this time, that's what this was. Mm-hmm. And I made the choice then and there, I need to make plans to get out. Mm-hmm.
So , when you decided to leave the second time, what were the steps that you took to get out? I. Hmm. Let's see. So what was that? Was it similar to the first time or was it different? It was a little bit different. I'm trying to think through it. I was more on my own this time. I didn't like, I didn't have someone, I wasn't seeing a counselor at the time.
I wasn't really a part of a group. I think I was the most isolated probably that I have been. [00:31:00] And so I really, I just, I think I talked to my grandma and just telling her what was happening. I also listened to some resources from Leslie Vernick and there was one in particular, I can't even remember what it was called, but it was about.
Oh gosh, I can't remember specifically, but it was how a man was treating his wife in the Bible. And I think it was the Levite, maybe the story of the Levite. And when I saw their, just the implications of abuse and the effects and the seriousness of it, and that's not what God wants for me. I think once I saw that.
I, that's when it really clicked. And I was also getting solo physically that I knew I had to do something. My body was starting to react, to all of the stress and [00:32:00] abuse. Heart palpitations, just constantly tense, feeling like something's going to happen. And so I think all of those things and seeing the effect on our kids, that's when I decided just to.
Let him know that I'm not okay with it. And I'm trying to remember even we had a conversation and I let him know, I think we need to be separated. And at the time he agreed with me that we need to be separated, but he wanted us to stay in relationship still, even though we were separated. But I knew in my head that I was done.
But it was good be that because that kind of started the process even though he thought that. You know, in his head he thought we would work it out eventually, I think it started the process and we lived in separate places. And then it just has continued from there with filing divorce. Hmm. So you're still in the middle of the divorce proceedings now, right?
Yes. Mm-hmm. What's your [00:33:00] interactions been with him, through this proceedings? It's been. Just on and off communication. He, that's with him. He's not outrightly like, glaringly abusive, especially in text messages. That's never been how he is really, it's more covert. So the communication part, except for about a year ago, we had a situation where he wouldn't leave the house and, that's when I stopped being able to let him be here with the kids.
But besides that, the communication has been minimal, thankfully. It's more been through money that the abuse has continued. And also through the legal proceedings, what he's asking for legally feels like abuse also. So yeah, he was like canceling credit cards and stuff on you. Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. So it's those like subtle, [00:34:00] under the radar where people won't notice really that the abuse is still happening. Yeah. So you look like the bad guy 'cause you're leaving mm-hmm. Your husband, but he's like, trying to sell the house out from under you and the kids and cutting your credit cards.
And it's like, how are you gonna feed the children? Where are they gonna sleep? I mean, these are your children. It's insane. Yeah. Your spouse makes you look like. Or makes you feel like you've lost your mind. Or like you said in the first time you left, well, maybe he's not that bad. Maybe I'm crazy.
Maybe it's not him, it's me. No, that's what they do. That's what they do, is they make you question your sanity and the reality of the situation. Mm. And that's still, that is the hardest part for me, especially right now with thinking about having to share my story with the court, with [00:35:00] people maybe who side with Dan.
And having him there in front of me as I share what has happened. I'm really struggling even right now with, yeah. Do I know what's real? Can I, can I hold on to that? And. Not get confused. Mm-hmm. So that's how the effects of psychological abuse go so deep. Like even if you know the truth, it can create this pattern in your brain where you start questioning yourself, questioning what you know.
And you and I tend to go back to. Seeing it as my fault. So I really have to push back against that and be around people who help me remember the truth and keep telling my, reminding myself of what's happened and this is real. This is not something that I'm making up. So how did you start the healing process?
Us? Oh gosh. I mean, I think it's been a constant process of trying to put [00:36:00] myself around people. Like I said, who will tell me the truth and, um, about myself and about the situation and how God sees me. So I went back to counseling. Recently after Mending Arm mending the Soul Group ended. I realized I needed to be around people still, and I needed people to speak that truth.
So I went back to counseling and that's helped a lot. Still listening to, voices that remind me. Of how toxic that kind of situation is, and that I don't need to stay in that environment. And also it's just, I think a process of acknowledging how much all of it hurt, acknowledging the damage that was done, and just the reality, letting myself accept the reality of the situation.
While also taking care of myself, like mentally, physically, and all of that. So it's definitely, it feels like a full-time, full-time job sometimes just, trying to keep myself going in the right [00:37:00] direction. But I'm definitely, I feel like I'm learning about what I need and, trying to meet those needs the best I can.
Would you recommend manning this all to others? What was your experience with the group? Definitely, yes, I would recommend it. Yeah, that was a first for me, being around other women who have been through abuse, and I think that alone is huge. Just being able to hear other people's stories and realizing that the patterns are the same, even though the situations are so different and the effects can be very similar too.
And, and also the steps to healing and processing what happened are so good. So it's just that combination of community with people who have been through it, and also the path to working through the, what happened to you. Well, I'm glad that it was so helpful to you. I've definitely seen some changes in you from the beginning when you joined the [00:38:00] group and now.
So that, I hope that's an encouragement to you. You seem so more confident and you recognize those red flags. You understand now what he's doing to you when he's talking to you. He is gaslighting you. He is narcissistic. He is being manipulative. You're recognizing those things, whereas you might not have seen those things before.
Mm-hmm. And, talking to our listeners that are going through abuse right now, or maybe they just left their abuser, what advice would you give to someone else who's being abused right now? Hmm. I think that, I would say to take care of yourself, and to think about what you really need. That it is not wrong to think about.
What you need and where you are at. I feel like a lot of times, especially in [00:39:00] Christian communities, we take on this idea that I think thinking about ourselves and what we need is selfish or wrong, and I feel like that kind of, that mentality set me up to stay in that situation a lot longer, than I probably should have.
So yeah, just considering what you really need, and. Getting people around you that will help you decide what steps you need to take, to get into a better position, a better situation where you can have healing, and, and just to yeah, feel better. So I would say, yeah, take care of yourself and get people around you that can support you and help you make a plan.
Very good advice. What would you say your relationship with God is like now that you've gone through some of your healing process? Hmm. It's definitely, it's good, but I do, I still [00:40:00] struggle with,
Not putting the characteristics. And protecting myself from God, I guess I have a hard time, like not distancing myself, and so it's always reminding myself that he is safe, that he cares about me, that he's leading me through this, and that I can trust him. So it is really good, but it is a constant,
a, a journey also reminding myself of the truth over and over so that I can keep coming back to him and not hiding. Oh, that's, that is so true. It is a journey and it's messy Sometimes it's, but God understands he's there and he's gonna be patient and waiting for you while you're still figuring things out and, mm-hmm.
Awesome. So like we have a music segment at the end of the episode. I don't suppose you're sing or play an instrument or juggle or anything like that. No. I play the, but I [00:41:00] don't have it. Oh, how about a joke? You got any jokes, kid jokes, cheesy jokes? No. Don't have any jokes? No. Oh, well, no. How about, I know that you have one of these.
How about what's a Christian song that really encourages you and that you just go to it whenever you're having a bad day. Oh my gosh. I think I mentioned this one during the group actually. Mm-hmm. I can't remember the title of it, but it's, it's the one, like, he's greater than All My Mistakes.
Gosh, I wish I can remember who, oh, I can't remember the name of the band. But anyway, it's something about, greater than all my mistakes, and if you type that in, it should come up. But it's amazing and it just talks about how, it's just such a peaceful song to me and just realizing that he really is, he's greater than all my mistakes.
The mistake that I made of being in a relationship with someone that's abusive. Mm-hmm. [00:42:00] Any mistakes I make with the kids, mistakes I make with putting characteristics on God that aren't him, anything that I do, nothing is big enough that is going to change his relationship with me. And that he's always there, waiting for me to, turn and look at him.
So, yeah, I love that song. I'll definitely put that in the show notes for people to look that up. 'cause I did listen to it when you mentioned it the first time and it is an awesome song. Yes. But I so appreciate you coming onto the show and sharing your journey with us. You're welcome. Thank you so much for having me.
So I hope you really enjoyed Ashley's story today. She had a lot of great nuggets to share with you, and I've heard her story before, of course, in a lot more detail, a lot more gory detail, but you can tell that she is an awesome lady, an [00:43:00] awesome mother who's gone through so much, so many challenges.
Yet, the Lord has really blessed her life, blessed her kids.
How did you feel about what Ashley said? Can you relate to any of the struggles that she's had that she's continuing to go through? You have a prayer request that you'd like me to bring before the Lord. I have my personal time with the Lord usually at breakfast time, so I'd be honored to pray for you.
So until next week. Choose one thing, just once, small thing today to get you closer to your healing goals. Thank you and God bless. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you. Please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find [00:44:00] our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links.
Hope to see you next week.
 
 

Diana introduces Randy Goodwin, a deliverance minister with over 20 years of experience in helping survivors of Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) and occult practices find freedom and healing through Jesus Christ. Diana and Randy discuss the complex nature of SRA, how individuals get involved, and the spiritual warfare involved in the healing process. Randy emphasizes the importance of sincerity and free will in seeking deliverance, while sharing insights on the tactics of the enemy and the transformative power of prayer and scripture. The episode also highlights the significance of professional counseling and offers resources for those looking to break free from the spiritual bondage of SRA.
00:00 Introduction to the Podcast00:45  753 Academy01:43 Introducing the Series on Cults03:23 Meet Randy Goodwin: Deliverance Minister03:57 Randy's Journey into Deliverance Ministry08:20 Understanding the Occult and SRA11:49 The Impact of Media and Programming16:03 Hope and Deliverance for SRA Victims18:51 The Process of Deliverance22:35 Critique of a Podcast on Demon Possession23:11 Pentecostal Perspectives on Demons24:04 The Deceptive Nature of the Enemy27:10 Prayers for Protection and Sincerity in Faith29:17 The Importance of Sincere Repentance31:59 Healing from Trauma through Faith35:32 Resources for SRA Survivors38:17 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
Bio:
Randy Goodwins deliverance ministry, SRA Survivor ministry has helped people suffering from the effects of SRA Survivors, witchcraft, deprogramming, trafficking survivors, the occult, rejection, depression, physical illnesses, molestation, verbal and emotional abuse, pain/trauma, DID/MPD, schizophrenia, voices (Dissociate Identity Disorder/Multiple Personality Disorder/MPD/DID/BPD/ADHD/OCD/CDD) and many more.
I help SRA survivors and those in the Occult get free and serve Christ. 
Email
deliverancenw@gmail.com
website
https://randygoodwin.org/
Link Tree
Website: https://dswministries.org
Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/
Social media links:
Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879
Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma
Affiliate links:
Our Sponsor: 753 Academy:
https://www.753academy.com/
Can’t travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here!
https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP
An easy way to help my ministry:
https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/
A donation link:
https://dswministries.org/donate/
 
Randy Goodwin 
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help.
Now here is Diana.
Hello everyone. Welcome to the podcast. We do have a great guest for you, as always for you. I'm very grateful that you are here today with me.
I'm also thankful for our sponsor 7 5 3 Academy that we have here in the local Phoenix area.
Their mission statement is we create the capability to deal with anything life may [00:01:00] bring. We believe in life, success, and good health. We believe students that learn the 7, 5 3 philosophy through self-defense training, gain the perseverance to overcome any challenge in life while strengthening the body, mind, and spirit.
Our academy is a supportive and inclusive environment where we provide the training for what comes next. So that is click on the link in the show notes for more information, 7 5 3 academy.com. Their email is info at 7 5 3 academy.com .
And tell Coach Eric and Coach David that I sent you. So now onto show.
I am going to be doing a series on cults, and thought that I would start with Randy Goodwin, who reached out to be a part of the show. So I will say that SRA is Satanic ritual abuse. Randy [00:02:00] Goodwin is a deliverance minister specializing in SRA trauma, SRA survivor therapy, survivor resources, occult deliverance deprogramming, and a deliverance prayer. Those who have suffered from spiritual bondage. With over 20 years of experience in ministry, Randy has helped hundreds of SRA survivors, traffic survivors, and individuals seeking OC cult freedom, while lasting freedom from spiritual abuse.
His approach is rooted in the belief that Jesus Christ has the power to break every chain and set people free. From the spiritual warfare, holding them back through personalized counseling.
So, needless to say, this is going to be a dark episode. So be mindful of that. We're gonna define what an, what the occult is, mind [00:03:00] control, trafficking, and how to get out of all that.
So I won't delay it any further.
I hope that this episode is informative and helps. If not you, then somebody you love, to be free of occult practices. So here's my conversation with Randy Goodwin.
Please welcome my guest today, Randy Goodwin. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And, we're gonna do our best here to get what we need across and hopefully we can help somebody in the process.
Yes, absolutely. I already gave the warning about this is going to be about a dark topic, the occult, to be sensitive about.
If that is your background and might trigger you, then maybe come back later if you need to or take a break. Randy, let's talk a little bit [00:04:00] about your background and how you got into this line of work, because we don't grow up saying, oh, I wanna be a cult d programmer. You know what I mean?
I had pretty much a normal life like everybody else did. You know, you go through teens, you get rebellious, you go off and do this and do that. And so you fast forward into my adult life and at the end, I don't wanna say the end of my adult life, but, about eight years ago, I just got to the point where I knew I had stuff in me.
And what I mean by stuff, I knew I had demons. 'cause otherwise you wouldn't be doing this, you wouldn't be doing that. This wouldn't be happening. And, you know, I got a laundry list, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. And so the. Best [00:05:00] thing you can do at that point, if you really want to be free, the starting place, if you really want God to come, the first thing that everybody has to do is just get on your knees with a humble heart and a true humble heart.
You're not just saying, God, help me. Alright, then go off and get a cheeseburger. You gotta really be serious. Seek the Lord and you shall find him. Knock and the door shall be open. So how hard are you gonna knock? How hard are you gonna seek? Well, I was serious. I really was. And I told God I was.
And so now after you say that to God, now we're gonna see what your actions are gonna do to see if you really mean it right. Yes. Yeah, exactly. So I sought out [00:06:00] people to help me sought out. A lot of people, talked to, a lot of people, finally got connected, you know, to a few people, and I had things removed from me.
And let me tell you, when you get things removed from you, it feels like this. Ah, yes. Just, I just feel lighter, you know, you can just feel the lightness come off you, the heaviness, and you become mm-hmm. You become lighter. And so here's what's totally cool. Once this stuff left, you know how we walk, how the scriptures say we have blinders on our eyes.
And we can't see because we might have a log or something. So you can't really, yeah, you can't talk to anybody else. 'cause you got this, you know, the entire house on your eye. Right. Not just one log the entire house. So, but once you get some of this stuff lifted [00:07:00] and the blinders removed, you can see a little more clearly.
Mm-hmm. And that's what happened to me. Some blinders came off
and anybody listening, that's exactly what can happen to you too. 'cause God wants that to happen to you. So these, some blinders came off me and I just sat there and I go, okay, I get it now. Okay. I can see what you're telling me. Wow. It took this, this long for me to hear you to say that one little sentence.
Yeah, that's right. It has been so. You know, then I just knew that, I knew in my knower, this is how I wanna make other people feel. And so I just went down the path I've never looked back and this is what I'm supposed to do. And God has taken me into a certain little area where he wants me to stay.
That's how I got into it. That's what motivates me. And this is why I do it. 'cause I want other people to feel this way too. Absolutely. It all starts with our, humble [00:08:00] heart. And then being serious, you gotta be serious. Mm-hmm. And if you have to seek out certain people.
Yeah, then it's okay. And God will connect you to the correct person.
So I wanted to ask, for our, listeners, some different terminologies. Maybe they won't be so familiar with. What is the occult actually and Satanic ritual abuse and how do you actually get involved with something like that? Are there like gateways to satanic abuse? So, SRA is short for Satanic ritual abuse and the occult and satanic ritual abuse kind of go hand in hand.
It's like a hand in glove because everybody that's in. And they're involved in an SRA scenario, then they are highly involved in the occult. For one, [00:09:00] you're born into the family. You just don't decide. One day I think I wanna be an SRAs, survivor, so you pick up the yellow pages. No, you're born into this and you're chosen, you're given over even before you're, even before you're conceived.
And when you're, conceived, there's certain things that happen within the mother's womb where they amplify this, concreteness to make you in this circle. And then when you're born, you're born with these entities. Here's the thing, it's not their fault. They're victims.
Mm-hmm. I always say this, if the enemy can, he will. He's looking for, he's just looking for an opportunity. I don't leave, I don't like the word of legal right. Or open doors, you know, we all use those terms, which there, there's truth in those terms. But I like the word opportunity. The enemy's an opportunist.
If he can find a way, he will find a way. And in, in a family, [00:10:00] in an SRA family, there's always a coven involved and there's certain, people within the family who are in this coven,
the parents and the grandparents. And there'll be a bunch of, other people involved also. And all these other people will, throughout this victims life where they will ensure their, instability and ensure the fragmentation of that individual. And once they can do that, then it's really difficult for that individual to get free.
Not impossible, but difficult. So the occult and the Satanic ritual abuse, they go hand in hand. They're like a hand in the glove because they're, they feed off of each [00:11:00] other and it's usually like a satanist family. And these families can go way, way back. It's just, they did it, parents did it, their parents did it, and so on and so forth.
And it's just what they do and their motivation for doing this is all pure selfishness. Of course, it's, it's all about power because when they can inflict things on an individual entities can come into that individual, which they get higher ranking entities into them, which brings them up in the rankings in the occult, makes 'em a little stronger in, you know, Satan's army.
And that's their motivation. Mm. Sad but true. That's kind of the, just of the whole thing, you know? Uh, so you are about the same age, it looks like, and you remember back in the eighties, the satanic panic and that, the church would [00:12:00] claim that, if you go trick or treating or you watch certain things, or you have cabbage patch dolls or you watch the Smurfs, that mm-hmm.
That, that is all a gateway into the occult and Satan having power over you. And do you remember that time period? And is there any legitimacy to that? I remember that time period, and I remember the time period before that. Yeah. Okay. So there's a lot of legitimacy to that. And it's no different than it is today. Remember when, TV first started?
They call 'em a television program. Well, it is a program. It's a program to program you. And that's where they got that term from. You get a lot of cartoons, and of course we know about all the, you know, the bad movies that are out there, all the, you know, the right horror movies or [00:13:00] slasher films or whatever.
Yeah. We know there's all kinds of stuff in those. Okay. That's a given. But you could get even cartoons. If we can get you at a young age, then we can make you go off course. And if you go off course, then you're not gonna serve the truer God and Father when you get older. And if we can still instill something into the, the child's brain while they're sitting in front of the TV set, like very common today, then we can make that child go off course.
And that's what they wanna do. And there's actual, programs that are written into these cartoons that do that. And it comes, from the ruling families and the people that control all the media. So there are some people that would probably fall for that type of programming, but others may not.
Is there? Well, what it does, is just everything, is like line upon line and once one thing happens, it makes you just a little bit numb, just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit. [00:14:00] Then it keeps compounding and keeps compounding, and you do this year after year after year, and then the next thing you know, you're, you're off course.
If the enemy can get you just see, like right now, if you can just get you just looking like this, just slightly off, he has success and so that's what the enemy wants and with the cartoons. And even like all the Marvel comics, all of them, every one of them, they're all based upon, demons. When those programs that they're actually written, that coded information will actually go into your brain and your brain will get a code inside it.
And now your computer holds that information
maybe a little deep, but it's just, it's just a way the enemy can make you go off course. Mm-hmm. And that's, we don't want that. And with SRA people, all of the, things that they have to [00:15:00] endure and all this stuff, it's a way to fragment them. And fragment their soul into all these parts.
And basically it creates, inside them, it creates a web undetectable by most people. And most deliverance people will just chase and chase and chase, and then let's go around the same mountain and these people will never get free. Yeah. So that's the just of an SRA individual.
You're gonna see a, you're gonna see an SRA person like, they'll be in grade school, they're gonna go to school, they're gonna attend school, and they'll get decent grades. Nobody will ever know anything else. It's a nice person, people like that person. But when they go home, things change.
Now they have to endure and experience and go through all of this stuff that the family, gives them to separate all this stuff in their [00:16:00] soul,
Now where does, the gospel come in, into play there? For example, if you were saved early in life, does that give you a protection against the occult influences? It does. But if you're born into one of these families, you're already given over. You've already crossed the line.
Okay. But here's one good thing your free will is never 100% captured. Yeah. Well that's good. One, it's never 100% captured. Your free will. I mean, you may have all kinds of fear, pressure, threats, all this kind of stuff. And they may seem like they're just mountains, but your free will is still intact.
You still can choose. Now, like I said, for an SRA person, it's super hard. Yeah, it's super hard to come out of this. But is it impossible? No, nothing's impossible with God. So you just take a [00:17:00] normal person like you were saying, and you raise up a child in the ways they should go, and when they're old, they won't depart from this.
And you can pray, you can protect. But when we expose ourselves or we're standing in the wrong place at the wrong time, or we're somewhere where, okay, I shouldn't be here. But you stay anyway. Okay. Just out of embarrassment or whatever. Okay, now Mr. Opportunity pops up and if he can, he will.
I always go back to that. You never underestimate the enemies lying capabilities. Right? He's had, we don't know how many years back to Adam and Eve, nobody knows exactly. I don't know how many thousands of years that was, but he's had that many thousands of years to learn human behavior. Yeah. Learn how we think, decide all these things.
So he's learned a lot on how to be cunning and deceitful. It's really [00:18:00] important to make sure, you know, that we pray for our children every day. Yeah. And we put on the whole armor of God on ourselves, on our children every day. Especially in these times. Mm-hmm. I mean, these are so vulnerable times.
And I say, never let your kids outta your sight. Ever. Not now. Yeah. Yeah. But there, there is hope for those generational curses that you've mentioned. There is a way of escape, and you do have a choice. There is. Even though all these things happen. You know, the SRA individual still can seek out help.
I didn't say it was easy 'cause there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of pressure, there's a lot of threats, and so on and so on. But, if they want it bad enough, they will. So you walk us through, maybe somebody that you've helped, like what does that process look like to [00:19:00] where the person is reaching out for help?
What is the spark there, and then how do you walk them through the way of escape how to get out of this thing? So, when I'm first contacted, I'll just send a quick email back. Do you feel you're an SRA. A person or someone that was raised in the occult, something like that.
And they'll say yes. Then I'll say, okay, let's just meet just for a chat. Just, this is not a session, just a meet and greet. Mm-hmm. And I'm just gonna ask 'em a couple questions. I'm gonna see where they are, I'm gonna see how serious they are, and I wanna see if they're just there to kick the tires or if they're really serious.
Mm-hmm. And motivated. You'd be surprised. Most people are just tire kickers really. They're just interested, weird stuff. They're just, yeah. They're just interested, you [00:20:00] know? It's very, very few that wanna stick with it and have the tenacity to follow through. So when I do get somebody.
That's serious. Let's say, they are an SRA survivor, then we have specific prayers that we are gonna start with that it's gonna break things all the way back from the very start in very specific prayers. 'cause the Bible tells us to be specific in our prayers. Yes. So I have very specific prayers, and of course we're gonna do some renunciations and we're gonna do some basic things.
Normally I'll spend about an hour-ish each time I meet with someone. And then we're gonna go in there because in an SA person, there is programming and this is what keeps all the trauma and all the stuff keeps it intact and it keeps it [00:21:00] hidden. There's hermetic seals over it, and a hermetic seal is like saran wrap over an incident or a ritual or vow oath and ceremony and all that stuff.
They hermetically seal it so you can't see it. Can't find it. So we remove those and this programming that's involved in SRA people and those in the occult satanist families and all there's, things that are built that they create inside their soul and inside their mind. And it's layered. Once you pull that main string, then it all comes tumbling down and.
Within two to four months, I can get somebody pretty well cleaned out. Doesn't take years to do this really doesn't take years. No, it's interesting. Yeah. I know most deliverance people will chase the traumas and the wounds and try to get those hell healed [00:22:00] up. That's great, but it's not going to, for an SRA survivor, it's not going to get them free.
You'd just be going around the mountain like that. You have to get rid of that programming out of there. And so that's what we will do. Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, the main thing is they have to be serious. have to be serious, and they have to be motivated.
Then, you know, and with that, then we can move forward. Then we can, you know, get 'em cleaned out. Yeah. Throughout when Jesus was on the earth, people don't realize that he cast out demons a lot in the Bible. He did. I did. I was listening to a podcast, one that I really like. I won't say who it is, but mm-hmm.
Ian, this guest did this whole story about demon possession and they left out completely Bible resources and what Jesus had done completely. And I sent him an email and I'm like, you really didn't do your research. You didn't even mention Jesus or all the [00:23:00] demons that he cast out and everything that went with that in the gospels.
Jesus had encounters with demons all the time, and they had to obey. He did. He did. I get a lot of flack from the Pentecostals. Him right in the eyes. Okay. But he spoke to Satan while he is looking at Peter right in the eyes.
And he said, get behind me Satan.
Yeah. I wanna hear what the Pentecostal said. What were they saying to you? Okay. So, uh, the Pentecostal side were, are all about, quickly screaming and yelling, speaking in tongues and, going right after demons and all that.
Yeah. They're a little, guess bringing attention to the demons. There's a demon behind every bush and Yeah. Something like that. And [00:24:00] they're very, quick to move, quick to speak, quick to act. And, but like I said, you have to remember the enemy is very cunning.
I don't think we give the enemy enough credit for how deceptive and how, much of a liar he is because he's the father of all lies. Mm-hmm. That means he's, uh, that he's, no, no one better than him. You're not gonna outdo the guy. He wrote the book on lying. Yeah. Yeah.
So, and then there's Jesus, and then there's Jesus who does water on water. Who does trample out those lies? He does. He removes 'em all. And the greatest gift of all is love. Mm-hmm. Uh, 'cause perfect love casts out all fear. And when there's perfect love in an individual, there's no fear in that individual.
And fear is the basis. It's one of the number one things that the enemy uses [00:25:00] to deceive anybody. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. If he can just get in there in any way, any opportunity to deceive, he will. If he can. Well, look at the news now. All you have to do is watch the news, which is designed to induce fear in people and get people upset, even if it's, whether it's true or not depends on who you listen to.
But I've seen that in my own home. Like they're freaking out. It's like, now hold on a minute. Calm down. Yeah. And it doesn't matter. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you're Republican or a Democrat. There's Right, there's still things that are said that you could be frightened from Yes.
Yes. And that is definitely the enemy doing that behind the scenes. Yeah. Our enemy is not the person in front of us, it's the behind the scenes. Of course. A hundred percent. And the enemy will when he can get something in our soul. It all works in your [00:26:00] subconscious, and that's 90% of your brain.
You know, we're talking right now in our 10% from the prefrontal cortex, but the 90% is where the enemy sets up camp. And he gets in there and hides. And if he has an opportunity to come in, he's gonna go in there hide and then try to camouflage it, you know, build things around it so you can't find it. So, let's just say somebody has a recurring dream, bad dream every once in a while.
And it might be the same, might not be the same exact dream, but it sure could be, it could be, uh, centered around a theme. If you're having these dreams, you know, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. I dream about work almost every night. Okay. Maybe you could tell me what that means.
Well,
there could be some things , if you have a bad dream that comes up, there could be something that got in there that's [00:27:00] making, this bad dream come up. And when you're sleeping and the, during your subconscious, you know, the enemy can really attack you. There. Here's what I do personally every night, and I would encourage everybody to do this before you go to sleep.
If you're married and you're a husband, that the husband should pray this prayer. If you're not married and you're the wife, then of course the wife should pray the prayer. Well, you wouldn't be a wife 'cause you wouldn't be married.
You pray. Heavenly Father, I put the blood of Jesus over my entire soul, over my wife's soul and over my kids' soul as we sleep tonight and give us sweet sleep in Jesus' name and I'll praise you. That's what I pray every night that would encourage everybody to pray that prayer. Yeah, because it does help.
It does. And then [00:28:00] after that, you pray this, say true Lord God. And Father, when I wake, I put the word of God before me and my family. For the entire day in Jesus name. So you are already putting out the word before you, before you even get up. Yeah. And those aren't very long prayers. I mean, doesn't take, they're not long prayers, doesn't take much.
You see, that's a whole nother thing. Jesus talked to the Pharisees, you know, these are guys that are scholars. They knew of the first five books of the Bible, probably by heart. Yes. Okay. But we have to know him. And when we have that, we have that relationship with Christ.
We can communicate, you know, as talking to our daddy, talking to our Heavenly Father. So if you really mean with your prayer, if you mean it, you don't have to have a lofty [00:29:00] prayer. You just have to be sincere. You have to be sincere. And you know what, when you're praying to God, hate to break it to you guys, but he knows if you're sincere or not.
Yeah, absolutely. He knows if we're sincere, there's no, there's no cut in that one. Yeah. That's go, goes back to salvation when we get saved, because I came from a denomination that had altar calls all the time and you know, you think you were saved and then they have, you come up to the altar and pray to get saved, but they're just going through the motions because somebody told 'em to go up there and pray, or somebody gave them a guilt trip.
They're going up there and they're, they aren't sincere. They don't know what they're doing up there. I was a missionary for 13 years, so Oh, wow. I'm familiar with knocking on doors and just pray this prayer repeat after me, [00:30:00] and they would just repeat after me, just so they'd get the door shut.
And so I would leave. It goes back to salvation. You don't have to say some big fancy, long prayer. It's just the sincerity of your heart that you wanna be saved and you want Jesus to come into your life and, understand he died for you. And, absolutely.
Yeah. We need him. Amen. And when I was talking about, SRA, people still have a free will. Mm-hmm. They, they still can reach out for help. That same principle stands true from what you just said. You go up for an altar call. Okay. We're gonna repeat a sentence.
Okay. Great. repent. Jesus said, repent and follow me. Yep. Those are the two things he asked. Just repent and follow me. Yeah. Those two things. So if you're truly sincere about your altar call and your repentance, then [00:31:00] your life is gonna show it from that moment forward. And that's what Jesus means.
Follow me. It's gonna hit you and you're gonna go, your life is just gonna start changing. It's gonna hit way down, and it's gonna mean something like it never has meant before. Amen to that. Yeah. Yeah. And so it. Our free will stands intact just for that simple out to call.
Also, you know, I gave my life to Christ when I was 14 years old and it was a death of my grandmother. And I was just, really close to my grandmother and she passed and I just felt all alone. Aw. And there I was and I started bawling. I felt alone and afraid. I cried out to the Lord right then and there, and I asked him to come into my life and I meant it.
Well, thanks. Yeah. And here I am, just a young man and I still mean it. Yeah. I was saved when I was 13, oh, nice. Got saved early in life, thankfully. Yeah. This [00:32:00] free will choice that we have. No matter what you've gone through in life, you might be somebody that, let's say you had a one time event violation from a family member.
Well, that causes trauma. Yes. And that causes a forever bad memory and a thought that gets really lodged deep inside, you know? And you might feel, I just can't get past this. This is just too big for me to get past. I've prayed and prayed and prayed, and it just doesn't go away. Well, Jesus can, I know you've probably heard this a million times, but if Jesus.
Is allowed to that spot, then he can get that healed. Mm-hmm. If, if he's allowed, I go back to our free will choice if we allow him to do that. And not just pray a prayer, not [00:33:00] just, read a prayer. We have to submit to him and his, perfect will. And he can touch that and he can heal it.
Once Jesus touches, uh, wound, like maybe like a one time event, you're still gonna remember it. Okay. You're still gonna remember the event, but it's just not gonna like sting. Hurt like it did. Right. And that's where the enemy lives is on all the emotions and the feelings. That's what he attaches to.
And Jesus can take away the enemy from those feelings and emotions if we, if we allow him. Mm-hmm. That's, that's pretty hard sometimes though, yeah. We experienced something like that. A one time trauma or maybe a series of, of things, you know, you lived a, a normal life, but we had a, I don't know, a bad neighbor or a bad relative or some [00:34:00] or something.
Getting past that. Now you're an adult. It can be humbling, to. You know, cry out to the father or even tell somebody else about it and talk to 'em about it.
And that would make you a victim if you did experience that. But see, here's, here's the thing about being a victim and being perpetrated upon. Being perpetrated makes you a victim, but there was still sin involved.
The scriptures tell us to confess our sin one to another, so Jesus. Can heal us. And that's really, see it's easy to do to God, say, oh Lord, forgive me of all my sin. But you know what, it's hard to tell what happened to another person Yeah. This happened, five years ago or 20 years ago, and I need to share it with somebody.
That's hard. That's hard to do. Yes. That can seem like a mountain. Wouldn't, wouldn't you agree? Oh yeah. I've got that through my mending, the soul groups. [00:35:00] It's humbling to be the first person that they share that with, and they're scared to death and they've never told a soul and, right. Yeah. Is, definitely, is very hard.
But the, the scriptures tell us that's what we need to do.
But when we're with another human being, that's very humbling. Mm-hmm. But there's something very, refreshing about it once you tell somebody what happened. Yeah. Yes. It's therapeutic. Very, very. Yeah. For those that are maybe listening and they've been in the occult, or they have a family member in the occult and they are serious about getting free, like, oh, listen, there's somebody here that can help me.
Uh, what resources do you have for the listeners? Just go to my website, randy goodwin.org, and you can contact me through there. So do you go through [00:36:00] a course or is it one-on-one coaching? What does that look like? Okay, so you're gonna contact me and then we are gonna meet, we're gonna meet one-on-one and just over the internet just like this.
And it's all private. And sessions are gonna be about an hour, hour and a half spaced out, about one week apart. No closer than that because we need a time to reboot. Yeah, because Yeah. And the tube to all that stuff that you talked about. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause we're gonna get into it. We we're gonna get into way more than you and I have even discussed here.
Oh, yeah. Way more. And we're, I, we move fast, very fast. I use broad, uh, brush strokes and, but if you're, truly serious, then yes, I can help you. , Of course, they're all asking, is there a cost involved with this? On the website, I do ask for a donation.
Here's what's interesting. I have a daughter [00:37:00] who gets social security, okay? So she lives on social security. So she asked me the other day, she goes, dad, um, I wanna give, you know, to my church for a tithe and stuff, but I don't have any money. I'm flat broke. I go, that's not true. You do have something. Do you have 10 cents in your pocket?
Yeah. Okay. Then you do have something to give. you have 5 cents? Yeah, I do. Okay, then don't tell me you're broke. You have something to give. You can give something. And by giving something, it puts you into the mix. You're involved. 'cause a money rep, money represents a part of our life. Sure.
And when we're put a part of our life into the process, it makes all the difference.
I absolutely. I forget you have a book. I have a book, it's Mind Control programming and SRA Survivors. And [00:38:00] it's on Amazon. You just type my name in Randy Goodwin. You can find it. It's on Amazon. Yeah. So that might be a helpful resource also. Anything you'd like to end with, something encouraging for our listeners, something practical.
I'd just like to reinforce the fact that if you are an SRA survivor or even if you've had some trauma in your life, then you do have a free will choice. You still have that. It just depends how bad you want to fight through it and get free. That's all up to you. It just like coming to Christ. God's not gonna make you come to him and follow the Lord.
It's up to you. You can get free. oh folks, reach out to Randy and his book and, for his sessions if that's gonna help you or a family member.
And, thanks so much for coming [00:39:00] on the show. I sure appreciate it. This has been a great conversation, Randy. Thank you so much for having me. And I appreciate your time and all your efforts that you put into your show. Oh, God bless you. God bless you.
Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.
 
 

 Diana continues her conversation with Beatty Carmichael about his book, 'The Prayer of Freedom.' Beatty shares his unique prayer approach that has reportedly yielded 87% success in healing various ailments. This episode includes a live demonstration of the prayer method, focusing on healing physical pain through guided repentance and forgiveness. Both Diana and Beatty discuss the spiritual and physical impact of unresolved issues and the power of structured prayer. Additionally, Beatty shares real-life stories of remarkable healings and offers a practical guide to his prayer method. Listeners are encouraged to test the prayer for themselves and share their outcomes. Relevant links and contact information are provided in the show notes.
00:48 Welcome to Wounds of the Faithful Podcast01:27 Introduction to Beatty Carmichael and His Book02:52 The Power of Prayer: A Demonstration12:52 Real-Life Testimonies of Healing19:55 The Importance of Forgiveness in Healing24:45 Beatty Carmichael's Book: The Prayer of Freedom27:42 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Bio:
Beatty Carmichael is a leading expert in spiritual laws and how they affect our health, emotions, and behaviors. After 25 years in business, he uncovered a radical truth: most pain, mental illness, sickness, and trauma aren’t rooted in physical or emotional causes, but in the spiritual realm. By identifying and removing the specific spiritual roots behind these struggles, he’s helped over1,000 people find freedom from things like chronic pain, anxiety, addiction, depression, suicidal thoughts, and even bipolar disorder—issues that medical science often can’t resolve. Once the root is gone, the problem typically disappears in less than 24 hours—with a documented 90% success rate. Beatty outlines this simple, step-by-step method in his book, The Prayer of Freedom, available at www.ThePrayerOfFreedomBook.com. Today, he’ll expose why so many people stay stuck—and how anyone can experience real, lasting healing by targeting the root issue most others overlook.
http://ThePrayerOfFreedomBook.com
 “To get freedom in your life, get a copy of The Prayer of Freedom today. It's available at every bookstore, but the best place to go is book's website at www.ThePrayerOfFreedomBook.com where you'll find additional information, discounts, and a free gift.”
Beatty Carmichael Part 2
[00:00:00] I do have a sponsor 7 5 3 Academy. Our martial art program specialized in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. Colli. We take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Our fitness community is friendly and supportive without the over the top muscle gym atmosphere.
Our coaching staff are professionally trained with over 30 years of experience. Get started by claiming your free class voucher. So go to the link in the show notes. This is in the Phoenix Metro area, so reach out to Coach David and coach Eric over at 7 5 3 Academy.
Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic [00:01:00] violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help.
Now here is Diana.
Hello everyone. Welcome back to the podcast.
Last time we were talking with my guest, Beatty Carmichael. He has his book that we are talking about.
We were talking about his book, the Prayer of Freedom, and he's developed a way of praying for healing where God answers. Those prayers 87% of the time.
So if you were here last time, you know that he is a dynamic speaker. He has, shown us a lot of things so far and I want to give him as much time as [00:02:00] possible to, to continue to share with us how we can incorporate this into. Healing
again, I'm gonna mention for the second time, this is, not a replacement for medical treatment. Please, incorporate this in with your physician, your psychiatrist, your pharmacist. Do not discontinue any medications or stop any treatments without the advice of your medical team. I'm not gonna go into Beatty's bio once again for time's sake.
But if you did not listen to part one, please go back and listen to the previous episode so you get a full picture. There's a lot of information that you don't wanna miss, and so we're gonna jump right in here to. Part two of my conversation with Beatie Carmichael. Enjoy.
So let's assume that we have some atheists on your com, on your podcast as well. You don't have to believe it to try it, [00:03:00] right. That's the key. Um, I don't believe putting gas in my car is gonna make it run, but I'll try it and it runs. Or the doctor gives me, uh, some medicine.
I've been having this chronic issue for years and he said, try this. It'll take it away in two days. I don't believe it, but it doesn't matter if I believe it, if it's based on science. If I take the medicine, it's going to clear that issue up in two days, whether I believe it or not. And so that's the way.
So I would challenge any atheist on this one, right on this prayer approach. Tell God, God, I don't believe you. I don't even believe you exist. You're gonna have to prove it. I'm gonna follow this process, but know that I don't even believe you exist. So these are just words coming outta my mouth and see what happens.
I am definitely gonna send my atheist friends this conversation. Good. You know, I'll let you know what [00:04:00] happens. Well then if you're gonna send your atheist friends this conversation, can I role play with you the prayer that I would have them pray so now they can follow this conversation and actually do it on their own and see if there's a
Absolutely.
Okay. Perfect. So let me ask you a couple of questions. Diana, do you have right now. Any pain, any uh, anything going on that you can feel and measure, like de depression or anxiety, migraine, anything that doesn't work, like your right arm doesn't work, or you have glaucoma in your left eye or anything like that?
Uh, yeah, my feet hurt today. Okay. And, uh, right now, do they hurt when you're sitting like you are, or do you have to stand up for them to hurt more? No, they're when I'm up moving around and doing things. Okay. But you can feel them right now with pain, right? Yes. Okay. On a scale of zero to 10, 10 being worse, what pain level [00:05:00] would you give it?
Mm, right now it's a three. Okay, perfect. So what I wanna do is I wanna lead you into a short prayer. You just repeat after me. I'm gonna use the word God only. We're not gonna use any other deity names. Uh. For the sake of anyone else that may be listening, that may not be a Christian, but they may be a Buddhist or whatever.
Okay? And while this works, I will state that I believe it works because of the God of the Bible and there's some very clear reasons why, but he doesn't care what you call him because he is still the God of the Bible. So we're gonna take that premise. And what I'm gonna do, Diane, is I'm gonna lead you in this prayer.
For your atheist friends and also for the audience that's listening to this, I want you to assess, do you have any pain, any anxiety, any depression, anything going on that you would like God to heal if God really existed? And if yes, go on and label it on a zero to 10 [00:06:00] scale with 10 being worse, what number it is, and then just repeat after me as I go through this.
Now, Diana, what I'm gonna do with you. Is there's gonna be a part where you're going to repeat out whatever the Lord's putting on your mind of sins to confess. I'm gonna have you mute your microphone so that we're not airing dirty laundry, okay? Uh, that way there's no restriction for whatever the Lord's putting on your heart.
So this is what I call a four step prayer. This is just the beginning of the full thing of the prayer freedom. So it goes like this. A repeat after me. Uh, Diana, uh, dear God. Dear God, if you exist, I want you to prove it to me. If you exist, I want you to prove it to me. I have this issue I want you to get rid of.
I have this issue I want you to get rid of, and then you would name it for you would be the pain in my foot, right? Yes. The pain in my foot. Okay. [00:07:00] I ask that you would remind me and put in my mind. I ask that you would remind me and put in my mind any sin I need to repent of against you, any sin that I would need to repent against you or any person I need to forgive or any person I need to forgive and I commit that I will repent or forgive them and I commit that I'll repent and forgive them.
Perfect. Now put your, uh, go on mute so that no one can hear anything. So now what you want to do, anything that the Lord may be putting on your mind. If it was a sin, and for people who don't know, all that means is you know you did something wrong. Okay, so the words are I repent of blank. I repent of stealing the money.
If you stole the money with someone, I repent of stealing the money with Tom. Always put the person's name. If you don't remember the person's name, [00:08:00] I repent of stealing the money with the guy in the blue hat. Just whatever the description was. If God is putting in your mind someone to forgive. You're going to say, I forgive Tom for what he said.
I forgive. Blank for blank. Okay. So go on and do that, Diana. And then when you finish, unmute yourself. That's right. But that's where the mouth readers good. Good job for the audio listener. She's got her hand over her mouth so we can't read her lips.
And for the audio listeners, y'all would be going through the same prayer yourself, repenting and forgiving.
Okay. My list is short, so Perfect. Good. Alright. Now I'm assuming it probably included someone's name somewhere along the way. Right. Okay, perfect. So now we'll continue and I break all unholy soul ties with, I Break All Unholy Soul ties with. I release all judgements [00:09:00] against, I release all judgements against and break any unholy blood contracts.
I'll guide, I'll you what these are in a moment and break any unholy blood contracts, blood contracts with with those names. I have called out with those names. I've called out and now God and now God. I ask that you take all my, for you pain in my feet away. I ask that you take, um, the pain in my feet away, take it from a three to a zero, take it from a three to a zero, and now I speak to the pain that's in my feet.
Now I speak to the pain that's in my feet and in the name of Almighty God. In the name of Almighty God, I command you to leave. I command you to leave. Get out now. Get out now. Now test it out and see if it's still a three [00:10:00] or is it changed?
I would not say it's a three anymore. Can you feel it at all? I would say it's a one. Perfect. It's not a three. Alright. So definitely, definitely an improvement. So it dropped by two thirds simply by saying that one prayer, which is repenting. So now we're gonna push it all the way up. 'cause I find you have to do it about three times.
We don't do the whole prayer again. All we do is the last part. So let me guide you, God, I ask that you take this all the way out right now. Ask you to take this all the way out right now, and I speak to the pain and I command you all the way out right now, and I speak to the pain and I command you all the way out right now in the name of Almighty God, in the name of Almighty God.
Go from a one to a zero. Go from a one to a zero. All right, now check it out and see if it's still there.
Well, [00:11:00] it's, um, zero in the left foot, but I still feel a little bit in the right foot. Yeah, so now we're going to do, do it one more time, but on now, if only for the right foot. God, I ask that you take it all the way out of my right foot. Now, God, I ask you to take this out of my right foot right now.
And in Almighty God's name, in Almighty God's name. I speak to the pain in my right foot. I speak to the pain in my right foot, and I command you out right now. And I command you out right now. Be gone. Be gone now. Check it out again.
Well, I'm just gonna be honest. Here. Um, please do I hate someone to lie to me. No, I've never that way. I know. I'm just seizing. I I know. I'm just seizing you that it's still in the one on the right foot. Okay. But I still think that's an [00:12:00] improvement over three. Yeah, for sure. It'll probably by the time we finish on our call, I'll probably be gone.
But what happens now is demonstrably all you did was a structured prayer. You got a consistent response that I always see. So what that means is there is a, some spiritual law that this is plugging into and that spiritual law always works. Uh, no, excuse me. I found that for me about nine outta 10 times, it works okay.
There's some things that it doesn't, um, that I can't figure out on a, on a few things. Now, if you have something like multiple sclerosis or stage four cancer. It probably isn't as likely to work as if you just have anxiety or a chronic pain somewhere. Um mm-hmm.
You probably won't believe it, but I'll show you the testimony if you wanna watch it. So this was about four, four or five weeks ago. I was over at the Addiction Recovery Center and one of the ladies, uh, had just come out of, shoulder [00:13:00] surgery. And the story is. Three years ago, she had a car accident.
She broke her AC and her collarbone, but because she didn't have any insurance, they just gave her a sling, and so she held it in the sling and it sat like that. So she's in excruciating pain with no movement for three years. When she came to the Addiction Recovery Center, they have insurance, so they went to see an orthopedic surgeon.
He says, I can fix it, but it's gonna be really invasive. It's gonna hurt. And so he had to drill through the bones, break them apart, reset them and wire them together. And then that's where she was now four weeks post-surgery. So she's in a lot of pain. Arm in the sling. I guided her through the very same prayer.
I guided you, God, remind me of things I need to repent of. And then I said, test it out. And she said, well, it doesn't feel as bad. She starts moving it around. I said, see what the range of motion is? So she starts to move it. The whole [00:14:00] range of motion, as she does all the pain, is now gone. She can do the full range of motion with her shoulder on both sides.
She stops wearing the sling. And then two weeks later, which is her six week checkup, she goes back to the doctor. He's blown away because she has no pain and not only no pain, she has the full range of motion that she had since before the accident, and he was saying before the surgery it'll take 12 weeks to recover and then a lot of physical therapy to fully get it back in use.
Yep. Yet it all happened like that. Why? Because there's spiritual laws that this karma concept, you know, the same concept that we see that people call karma. It's a real concept because there really are consequences to being doing bad things. But what we don't understand sometimes is how those consequences affect us because this was a car accident.
So we say it was just a natural cause and effect, but the fact that she [00:15:00] repented of things that God put in her mind, that he said these were bad things that you should not have done, and when she repented the shoulder got healed, tells me. The root of even what happened with the, the car accident and the breaking the shoulder at the car accident was a spiritual root.
So once you get rid of the root, you can get rid of the problem. And that's what I'm finding throughout all of this. And it's revolutionizing people from like, just last night I was, uh, doing a podcast with, another lady and I demonstrated this. I said, do you have anything that you can measure? She says, yeah, depression and anxiety.
It was like an eight. We went through that very same thing and it all went to zero. She started to cry and then she said, I asked her, how long has she, has she had it? She said, well, you know, I grew up in an abusive family and I've had this since early childhood, and she has adult children now, so all of these years, and it's gone in an instant, [00:16:00] and she starts to cry both with the relief.
Also like a friend of mine that I led through the same thing, uh, his dad committed suicide when he was like 11. And then, you know, the whole family dynamic is just full of trauma and all kinds of issues and he's been under this heavy clout. And it wasn't until he went through this process. Now for him it wasn't instantaneous.
There was a more gradual over maybe a couple weeks or so for everything to just kind of free up in his life. But he was lamenting saying. I wish I'd known this 34 years ago. You know, how many years of Lost Life has he gone through when he could have gotten free of it had he just known how this worked?
So it's really powerful. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I actually work in the orthopedics department. Oh, wow. So this really makes sense to you. Uh, yeah. I was watching the video about the guy he needed a hip replacement. Yeah. And so I thought, oh, [00:17:00] wow, that's, that hits home for sure. I'm always, ripping my rotator cuff.
I've, I ripped it three times and had to do all the physical therapy and stuff, so I totally relate to that example that you gave. So can I share something all day? Mm-hmm. Sure. Anytime you see a pattern that keeps repeating itself, like you've ripped your rotator cuff three times, that tells me there's gonna be more than likely, I've got a 90% likelihood that there is a spiritual route.
And if you were to go through the full process, so the full process with a prayer freedom is a worksheet in the back that you fill out and it's a memory jogger so that you can cover everything that is potentially possible. If you were to do that, I believe that whatever's going on with that, you'll not tear your rotator cuff again, just that point.
Is it? I see the part, yeah. Most [00:18:00] of the time I get it. When I'm doing terrible form on my pushups or I, open the sliding glass door with a bad technique. Yeah, I, so if you're in orthopedics, you know about when you pull a ligament in your thumb, right? Mm-hmm. So I pulled a ligament in my thumb.
I'm exercising all the time, so I use dumbbells and, free weights. Mm-hmm. And you have to grip. So as soon as that happened, I can't do any exercise. I can't even grip a five pound dumbbell, and it's going on for a week now. How long does do ligaments normally take to heal?
Do you remember? Uh, six weeks at least. Yeah, at least six weeks. And I'm thinking I'm gonna be out of exercise for six weeks. Yeah. And then I said, you know, doctors are usually the last ones to try to apply their own approach to themselves. And I said. I wonder, Lord, if this has a spiritual root, it has a physical cause, right?
I was carrying a chair and it twisted [00:19:00] in my arm. That was the physics of it. But is there a spiritual root behind it? So I said, Lord, remind me of any sin I need to repent of that could be tied to this. And he started reminding me of some things from a while back. Um, and I just repented that and, and it still hurt.
I said, okay, that must not have been it. I wake up the next morning. It's all gone. So I start testing, I'm lifting heavy weights, and I'm pulling on and trying to pull the, you know, Ooh. And it's totally healed. I'm back to full exercise after only one week, so it even works for me. Wow. Yeah. So it you, the, the chair twisted and pulled it, but it was instantly healed or within a few hours by the next day simply by going through the same process.
I'll definitely have to keep that in mind. Next time. Now people are listening and they're probably [00:20:00] wondering when you talk about repenting from, from things you did wrong, do you get any pushback with that? People that they don't want to, deal with what they've done wrong or they're offended that you brought it up or, yeah.
Whatever. So, um. Lemme tell you a story to answer your question. There's this lady named Susan, and she had unforgiveness for her sister from about 20 years earlier. Mm-hmm. And for all 20 years, she knew she should forgive, but she was unable and unwilling to because whatever the sister did was just that painful to her.
Right. So then she asked me if I would pray for her rheumatoid arthritis because she's had the arthritis for about 15 or 20 years, and that day was flaring up and I asked her, because God prompted me on this one, and I asked her, do you have unforgiveness for anyone? She said, yes, my sister. And I said, would you be willing to forgive her?
Now watch this. [00:21:00] She wants to be healed. And so she said, yes. There was no question once there's the potential likelihood that she would be healed if she did it. So I just said, repeat this, God, I repent. I forgive my sister from whatever she did 20 years ago. And then I asked God to take away the pain of her arthritis.
So I said, walk up and down the stairs and see if it helps. So she did. And she said, it feels a lot better. I said, okay, great. So I think you'll be good now. She caught it with me five weeks later and said, I wanna tell you the rest of the story. She said, ever since I prayed for her, she'd had no arthritis pain the week before, uh, that she talked with me.
So this is now four weeks after I prayed with her. She said, I went back to the doctor and he retested me and says that my body, I have no arthritis in my body. Now. This is rheumatoid arthritis that she'd been diagnosed with 15 years earlier. Mm-hmm. And then she said. The [00:22:00] doctor said that my body shows no signs of ever having had arthritis to begin with.
It's almost as if Wow, when, she did what God said to do, which is to forgive, that's a sin. If you don't forgive, then it's almost like God reversed everything. Put it back to normal. That's the same thing that happened with the lady with the shoulder issue. Mm-hmm. She said, my shoulder has a full range of motion as it did before the accident.
It's as if it was ma. In fact, I can't show you, but she had a bone protruding right here that the Okay. Orthopedic surgeon couldn't put back in place. And after doing the prayer, the bone doesn't protrude anymore. She showed me a picture, here's what it looked like, and now here's what it is.
And I go, wow. So all kinds of things can happen that we have no explanation for, but what I've learned is most people believe there's probably a God and that that God can probably do a miracle anytime he wants. What I find [00:23:00] is he simply does what we can call a miracle quite frequently when we. Go through this process and repent, say, I'm sorry, those things that he tells us to.
So I do get pushback except for the people who want to be free of whatever it is they're struggling with. And then I get no pushback. Does that make sense? Well, oh yeah. And it is very much, Bible about the forgiveness. If you have bitterness against somebody and you hold that in your body.
Your body feels that, and it, it does and it affects your entire body. It affects your mind when you are just, and you're not willing to move forward and forgive even if the person has asked for forgiveness. I'm sorry. That is, Bible right there that, and it's also if you be willing to forgive, then your body will heal.
Yeah, and I was doing some research and science and other [00:24:00] studies, research studies find that between 40 and 60% of all chronic pain has a commonality of unforgiveness and bitterness that those people also carry, and mm-hmm. What I'm finding is if you get rid of that unforgiveness and bitterness, a lot of times that pain disappears.
Yeah. Which is a direct cause and effect, right? Mm-hmm. It's a, it's a scientific empirical data. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not. It, it work, it happens. And medical science and research is finding that out. Mm, yes. I'm glad that we're on the same page about that. We've talked about a lot of things today and heard some great stories.
And, was there anything that, we didn't talk about that you wanted to cover? Without being too unabashedly promoting. I would like to talk about my book. Yes. That has all of the instructions. This is a how to book. It's not a novel, it's a how to book even has, video [00:25:00] excerpts that you can go watch training videos on specific areas if you want more, understanding, but it's called the Prayer of Freedom.
Now if you type in the prayer freedom at Amazon, you can get all kinds of any book on prayer and freedom. You'll never find it. So the best way to get it is add the word book at the end of the title, the prayer freedom book.com. That's the website, the prayer freedom book.com. They'll take, give you a link to go straight to Amazon, straight to the book, but you'll also be able to get some discounts on the book if you want.
Uh, you'll see a video with some test, with some real life stories and testimonies about it. If you like and some free stuff as well. So let me encourage you, if you or your loved one you're suffering with any sort of mental illness, all the garbage from trauma from years back and you got chronic pain and even just the ability to manage life with the trauma in your head.
'cause a lot of times you're just like, you know, you just, you can't get outta your head. As I worked with these people at the [00:26:00] Addiction Recovery Center. That stuff just starts to disappear and now they can function more normally. So I really encourage you to do that. The great thing about Amazon and most booksellers, you can send it back in 30 days if you don't like it.
So I'll give you, I'll give you my money back guarantee, right? Buy it, try it. If it doesn't work, just send it back. You'll get your money back and it'll cost you nothing. So there's no risk to trying it. And it says there's a free gift for the listeners. Yeah. So I have what's called a power prayer, which is, just a real simple portion of this prayer that has really great, impact in people's lives.
And it's just like a little free gift. If you request that, then you can, uh, get that as well. It's all in the book, but if you just wanna get an advanced copy of it, then you can get it there. Wow. And we definitely believe here that. Jesus is the great physician. We definitely [00:27:00] believe in prayer here and this has been a great conversation to discover the power of prayer in practical ways, and, add that to our treatment plan of healing from all kinds of stuff.
I'm so glad that you came on this show. I appreciate it. You're welcome to come back anytime if you have some new books that you write. I would love that. And thank you, Diana, for the opportunity to be here and share hopefully a little bit of hope and freedom for your listeners. God bless you.
So Beatty and I, we talked. Offline. After our conversation, he prayed for me about some things going on in my life, which it was such a blessing just to talk with him.
We have a lot of other things in common, but I [00:28:00] did wanna let you know while we were talking and before we hung up, I realized that my right foot did go to a zero. So, um, so just wanted to be honest in that that did happen and that might encourage you to try the prayer. Uh, if you would like and let me know what happens.
Let Beatty know what happens. Reach out to him. All of his, information is going to be on the show notes. For you, the website and where to purchase his book and his email to contact him with questions or maybe some victories. Okay, folks, we will see you next on the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast.
Thank you for listening. Bye for now.
Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You [00:29:00] could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.
 
 

In this episode we're introduced to Beatty Carmichael, author of 'The Prayer of Freedom,' who shares his journey of using prayer for healing various ailments. Beatty discusses his methods and experiences, including empirical results from his work at an addiction recovery center. The podcast emphasizes the importance of incorporating prayer alongside traditional medical treatments but advises listeners to consult their healthcare professionals before making any changes. Beatty's spiritual approach has reportedly yielded impressive results across various chronic conditions.
00:00 Sponsor Message: 7 5 3 Academy00:48 Introduction to the Podcast01:22 Creating a Sanctuary: A Place of Rest02:11 Guest Introduction: Beatty Carmichael05:45 Beatty's Background and Healing Journey08:41 The Power of Prayer in Healing12:29 Scientific Approach to Spiritual Healing21:05 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser21:34 Closing Remarks and Contact Information
Bio:
Beatty Carmichael is a leading expert in spiritual laws and how they affect our health, emotions, and behaviors. After 25 years in business, he uncovered a radical truth: most pain, mental illness, sickness, and trauma aren’t rooted in physical or emotional causes, but in the spiritual realm. By identifying and removing the specific spiritual roots behind these struggles, he’s helped over1,000 people find freedom from things like chronic pain, anxiety, addiction, depression, suicidal thoughts, and even bipolar disorder—issues that medical science often can’t resolve. Once the root is gone, the problem typically disappears in less than 24 hours—with a documented 90% success rate. Beatty outlines this simple, step-by-step method in his book, The Prayer of Freedom, available at www.ThePrayerOfFreedomBook.com. Today, he’ll expose why so many people stay stuck—and how anyone can experience real, lasting healing by targeting the root issue most others overlook.
To get freedom in your life, get a copy of The Prayer of Freedom today. It's available at every bookstore, but the best place to go is book's website at www.ThePrayerOfFreedomBook.com where you'll find additional information, discounts, and a free gift.
 
Beatty Carmichael Part One
[00:00:00] I do have a sponsor 7 5 3 Academy. Our martial art program specialized in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. Kali We take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Our fitness community is friendly and supportive without the over the top muscle gym atmosphere.
Our coaching staff are professionally trained with over 30 years of experience. Get started by claiming your free class voucher. So go to the link in the show notes. This is in the Phoenix Metro area, so reach out to Coach David and coach Eric over at 7 5 3 Academy.
Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic [00:01:00] violence advocate, Diana . She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help.
Now here is Diana.
Hello and welcome to the podcast. Come on in, take a deep breath, breathe out. It's pretty crazy out there right now. Hopefully this is a sanctuary for you, a place of rest. A place to come and take a load off,
a peaceful place and try and make it that way.
Say a prayer. I hope that you've been enjoying the guests that we've had on the show recently. We do have a great guest for you this week as well. We're gonna be talking about [00:02:00] prayer when it comes to wellness. We are certainly big on prayer here and trying to find ways to heal from domestic violence and abuse.
And my guest today is Beatie Carmichael, and he's gonna tell us our prayer. Is instrumental in healing. Uh, I wanna tell you a little about his bio here.
Beatty Carmichael is the author of the book, the Prayer of Freedom. He has developed a way of praying for healing. God actually answers those prayers around 87% of the time. With this process, he has seen God heal over 700 people. Everything from relationship [00:03:00] conflicts, all kinds of chronic pain, anxiety, glaucoma, and more.
Some people think God doesn't answer prayers for healing because they've never seen him do it for them, but Beatty has found that with the right approach, God does it almost every time. So if you struggle with relationship conflicts, chronic pain, migraines, depression, anxiety, panic attacks, and more, you're in for a big treat.
With today's guest as Beatty shares the root cause of most of these issues and a simple four step approach in prayer to get lasting freedom from them today. So I do want to say when we're talking about healthcare issues, 'cause I work in healthcare. Yes, prayer is definitely a part of [00:04:00] healing.
The hospital that I belong to, that I work at definitely believes in faith and incorporating prayer as part of the treatment plan. And some of the stories and examples that he's going to give are pretty miraculous. Just want to make sure that you are
following your medical professional's advice, whether it's a medical doctor or a psychiatrist, psychologist. Pharmacist. That you are following their professional advice. Don't stop taking your medication or don't stop taking your cancer treatment unless it is approved by your doctor who is in charge of you.
I have to say that because, a lot of lawsuits happen, especially here in the United States, you know, the whole, this is not to diagnose, cure, treat any [00:05:00] disease. We all see that on things like vitamins and so forth. But at the same time, we are open-minded to other ways of healing, particularly.
Spiritual ways of healing is a little bit of a different take on healing. So we wanna be open-minded to other options that may work for you that may supplement what you're doing now. We certainly need God's help when it comes to healing because he is the great physician. So I am, excited as to what he has for us today and what he has to show for us.
So enjoy my conversation with Beatty Carmichael.
I'm excited to welcome my guest today, Beatie Carmichael from Birmingham, Alabama. Welcome. Well, thank you, Diana. I'm glad to be here. We're gonna talk about your book, the [00:06:00] Prayer of Freedom and about prayer and healing. So I'm very excited to have you today. Now, are you a survivor yourself or any of your family members?
No, but I teach at a place where I deal with survivors all day long. Yeah. You say you teach a class on spiritual warfare at a Women's Addiction Recovery center. Yeah. So tell us about that, your ladies that you help. So, it's the largest addiction recovery center in America. They house over 500 women, and they're all recovering from addiction.
Usually with addiction, you have all kinds of trauma, childhood abuse, you have all kinds of parental, loved one abuse and just all this stuff that goes with it. And I teach, two or three classes and I've been doing it for three years and love to just grow and to love the ladies and really understand a lot of the challenges they go [00:07:00] through.
And I, I do teach a class on spiritual warfare. And the subtitle is How to Get Free of These Torments that They that struggle with. And it's the number one class in this facility because most of my students, when they come in, they leave being freed of most of the junk that they've been carrying for most of their life.
And they're able to let go and finally start to be on a platform where they can move forward in life. So it's been really cool. Wow. You come from a family of doctors, I understand? Yes. So I come from a line of seven generations of medical doctors and I'll have to brag on
mayo Clinic. So my dad, when he was in surgery, he entered surgery when specialties were just coming out, and so he was a vascular surgeon. His specialty were the carotid arteries on the either side of the neck, and it's very critical because if any of, if one of those bursts, you got [00:08:00] minutes before the eyes.
Right? And so my dad had the highest. The quickest route recovery quickest surgery, lowest complication, even higher, better numbers than the guys at the Mayo Clinic. So we always thought, Hey, that's pretty cool, wow. Mayo Clinic. But he retired, 15, 18 years ago. But seven generations consecutively of medical doctors.
I didn't go into medicine, but I took the same approach. To work on healing, which is a scientific approach, and I help people get healed through more of a prayer approach than a medicine approach. And it's been really cool. So was there like an event that brought you into this prayer? Yeah. I'll tell you the story as it is, whether you believe it or not, or whether you, okay. So I end up going into business. I'm actually a small business owner by trade and vocation. I [00:09:00] helped real estate agents get listings. It's a little company called agent dominator.com and about nine years ago, the Lord started put this burden on my heart to want to
bring healing into people's lives and looking backwards. I can kind of see now, sort of this healing mantle in my generations and it was always there, but had been suppressed for me. But he started to awaken it and he led me eight and a half years ago to simply go out and try to pray for people for healing.
And so, with a little bit of anxiety, but kind of this urge to try it. I went out to a Walmart and I walk up to people that look like they're in pain. They're limping, they're riding one of those scooters because they can't walk. Things of that sort. And I just asked, Hey, I'm out praying for people. Can I pray for you on anything?
Are you in pain? Right? And I saw a third of the people. Uh, now you have to understand my definition of healing may be a little bit different. I call [00:10:00] it heal. But since we're on a kind of a medical type show, I wanna be clear on this, it was a total cessation of symptoms. Okay? Okay. So, like, the, one of the first ladies, she was she had degenerative disc in her neck and degenerative disc in her lower back.
She was racked in arthritis and she had lupus and she was riding one of these little electric scooters and she had an assistant with her to help her get things off the shelf because she couldn't even look up. Mm-hmm. So I prayed for her and I said, well, stand up and let's see if it works. Right. And she stands up, no pain.
She can move her neck all the way around. She can li you know, I mean everything as if. There was nothing there anymore, so I would call that being healed. She didn't go to the doctor, so we don't have a medical diagnosis, but everything that she couldn't do, she could do now without pain. And I started to see a third of the people I prayed for what that type of stuff would happen.
And then within about a year or so, I got it up to about 90%. [00:11:00] People like with glaucoma, their eyes would, they can now see people who couldn't hear would now hear. I mean, these things that we would say, uh, like one first ones was a lady with RSD. She had on this compression sleeve on her right arm.
And I said, can I pray for you? She said, yes, but don't touch it. I said, what's going on? I have RSD. And I said, oh, okay. Like, I knew what it was. I had no idea what RSD is about,
When I went back and told dad about this, and I told him about RSD, he said, RSD. Is a neuropathy type of a neurological issue. It's extremely painful and it's incurable. And if she no longer has pain, he said that's a miracle, right?
But after I prayed for her, you could touch her arm and she, I mean, everything was just normal. So I started to go this direction and then what happened that led me into where we're going with the prayer freedom is after about seven years of this, and I would say about a hundred people a year. All these things disappear.
I'd go out and I was seeing nine outta 10 people, [00:12:00] whatever, as I prayed for all the symptoms, completely disappear. And then in a period of two weeks, I went back out and I now only saw one outta 10. And it baffled me, you know, I, I'm a scientist. I say, you keep doing the same thing, you should get the same result, right?
So I went in prayer and asked God, what's going on? And God said, I took that gift of healing away. I said, why? He said, because now I want you to do it based on authority. And I understood what he meant. This is one of the things I've been experimenting with along the way is some of these spiritual laws and how, to define for you and the audience.
You have several types of sciences. One is a physical science, right? So in physical sciences, I like, I have a pen, and if I let go of the pen, it drops. And every time I let go of the pen, it drops. And if you were to pick up your pen and let go of it, it would drop. So we can conclude. There's a physical law, we call it gravity because mm-hmm.
Every time you do the same result, [00:13:00] same activity always gets the same result. So we can say there's a law that we can't see, but it's empirically provable. I started to see the same thing in the spiritual realm. And I call it spiritual realm because it's just not the physical realm. I don't know what realm it is.
I just call it spirit. And that spiritual realm is when we pray a certain process over here, the same result always occurs over on this other side. And that's where God was starting to send me. So I would go back out to Walmart in places and I would take them through a process rather than me praying for them, I would lead them in prayer and they started getting the same result of all kinds of things that.
We would call a miracle be only because we can't explain how in the world could that happen. And then God told me to write this into a book and that's what came out with the prayer freedom. And as I'm teaching at this Addiction Recovery Center, these women have all kinds of [00:14:00] issues. If you're familiar with anyone with addiction, there's a lot of trauma that goes with it.
Usually in early age, and then you have, as a result of that, you have all kinds of things like bipolar, you have anxiety and depression and panic attacks. You have sometimes voices in your head, all kinds of chronic pain. And for these ladies also lots of addiction. And I worked out a worksheet where you make a list of the things that are the spiritual roots I was able to identify.
And I gave them a prayer of just how to pray to God and include these spiritual roots basically saying, I'm sorry about doing this, or I'm sorry about doing that. And so I gave it to my three classes. I first had to make a list of all the issues they were going through, so all this stuff that, the mental illnesses, the chronic pains, and the addiction urges and anything else, and rate those, illness, those levels on a scale of zero to [00:15:00] 10.
10 being worse, zero being, they don't have it. They don't feel it, they can't identify it. And then I had them go through this process on their own. 'cause I wanted to measure was does this really work or is it just something with me? So I came back a month later and they turned in their papers after praying through going through this process.
And I found that of those who completed it, 87% of them. Saw pretty much everything on their list go to a zero, just like totally disappear out of their lives. The 13% of the people saw almost no movement. Okay? So I'm not sure what's going on with the 13%, but for almost nine outta 10, it just like almost everything left, which is interesting.
I won't thing about that until just now. Those are the same numbers I saw praying for people, right? Nine outta 10. I see the same thing with this. Yet, this is now a systematic approach. And so [00:16:00] that's why I say it's a spiritual approach to on spiritual laws, because these ladies, they're, some are atheists, some may probably Buddhist or Hindu.
Others are Christian. Others are just agnostic. It doesn't matter to their religion. It's just that the framework of there's probably a God that created us. If, have you ever heard Diana of Karma? Do you know what karma is? Yes. Okay. Mm-hmm. So a lot of people say, you know, karma, you do bad things, bad things are gonna happen to you, kind of this cause, right?
Yeah. Well, the Bible actually talks about that as as a root of sickness. And I use the Bible because it's been really accurate spiritually from the spiritual laws. And one of the things it says is, it says, actually two things. Number one in the Old Testament, it says, if you sin against God, uh, this is in a book called Deuteronomy.
It said, if you sin against God and don't obey him, then he'll send on you all these sicknesses and diseases. And then over in the New [00:17:00] Testament at the end of the Bible, in James five 16, it says, if you confess your sins, you'll be healed. So it shows both of these spiritual laws.
You do something bad against God, sickness and diseases, and then if you confess your sin, which means to repent and be sorry for them, then he will heal you. And that's basically the premise of this, of the prayer freedom is identifying these things that we may have done that maybe is against what God wants us to do.
And when we say we're sorry and ask him to heal it, then we find a lot of these things just kind of disappear. I do wanna be real, since we're on a medical call, let me get this claimer. Okay. If you're under the care of a doctor, don't stop anything until you get their doctor's for approval, right? Because Yes, thank you.
Yeah, because some of this stuff, it may not be exactly what you're thinking, but more than anything else, there's a lot of stuff that we don't want to fill with, especially when you get into prescription type of drugs. Okay. And there's a lot of issues there. So, [00:18:00] if you're on any sort of prescriptions or any other therapies before you stop it, even if you think you can, go talk to the doctor first and get permission.
Great. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Now you're talking about prayer, but. Would you call yourself a prayer warrior? What is your spiritual background? Like, were you really good at praying or no? What was it like for you growing up? I went to a very liberal church initially that really didn't teach much, other than feel good is the way I would describe it.
Then I moved to another church that was very legalistic. Very dogmatic. Mm-hmm. And there was like no love. Right? Right. And so this whole thing of prayer, what really happened to me is I was, you know, I claim, I'm a Christian as my chosen religion, but it wasn until God started to heal people, when I would pray for them.
I got really [00:19:00] curious about what this thing is all about and really curious, is prayer really that effective? Right, because it's, I'd never seen that before. Oh, I pray, but I'm not sure I could really say because I prayed something happened. And a lot of times I just wouldn't pray about things because it is like you just kind of pray and goes up in this ether somewhere and we hope maybe something happens good from it.
Taking vitamins. We take vitamins, but we can't really track anything specific. We just know it's probably good. Unless you have scurvy? Yeah. Unless you have scurvy or something. Vitamin That vitamin C. But once I started to see people starting to be healed, it really prompted a high level of curiosity to understand what's going on.
And this is where I think I call it the scientific mind. Only because doctors are scientists, they're medical scientists and so while they are medical doctors, I call myself a prayer doctor, right? Because they use medicine to heal. I figured out a way to [00:20:00] use prayer to heal so that I wouldn't call myself a prayer warrior.
If anything, I would say I'm a scientist, a spiritual scientist or a prayer doctor. I'm not sure. But yeah, so that's how I started. And then over the years I started to identify these spiritual laws that the Bible talked about. And then I would go out and test them and start to pick up a consistent pattern of, I'll call it empirical data that was just irrefutable.
And I go, wow, this works. And it no longer works because of me. It works because someone else is following the process. So I know a couple atheists very well, and we've had some conversations, very spirited conversations about Yeah, that God doesn't exist. You mentioned that this would work for anyone, even atheist.
So they would say prayer is communication and worship of a [00:21:00] deity. So. Why would an atheist go for that? Just curious.
I think this is a great place to stop. I know that you're gonna wanna hear more stories and more about this healing with prayer as to how it works and how you can incorporate it into your treatment plan.
He has a lot more to say, so I encourage you to be here next time on the Woods of the Faithful Podcast. Thanks for listening. God bless you. Have a great week. Bye for now.
Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next [00:22:00] week.

In this episode Diana welcomes back author Dana Diaz, who discusses her second book 'Choking on Shame.' Dana shares her experiences with narcissistic abuse in her marriage and childhood, emphasizing the importance of telling one's story, forgiveness, and healing. Dana also talks about her upcoming third book, 'Rising from the Ashes,' which focuses on her life post-abuse and her journey toward healing and self-love. Discussing the complexities of dealing with unhealed trauma and finding inner peace, Dana provides valuable insights and hope for those navigating similar struggles. Listeners are encouraged to seek professional help and understand that it's never too late to start the healing process.00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message00:48 Welcome to the Podcast01:27 Dana Diaz's Story: Choking on Shame02:41 Understanding Narcissistic Abuse03:57 The Impact of Abuse on Life and Healing06:25 Rising from the Ashes: The Sequel09:50 Forgiveness and Healing26:03 The Power of Writing and Sharing Your Story35:37 Closing Remarks and Resources
Link Tree
Website: https://dswministries.org
Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/
Social media links:
Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879
Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma
Affiliate links:
Our Sponsor: 753 Academy:
https://www.753academy.com/
Can’t travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here!
https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP
An easy way to help my ministry:
https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/
A donation link:
https://dswministries.org/donate/
 
Dana Diaz Part 2
[00:00:00] I do have a sponsor 7 5 3 Academy. Our martial art program specialized in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. Colli. We take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Our fitness community is friendly and supportive without the over the top muscle gym atmosphere.
Our coaching staff are professionally trained with over 30 years of experience. Get started by claiming your free class voucher. So go to the link in the show notes. This is in the Phoenix Metro area, so reach out to Coach David and coach Eric over at 7 5 3 Academy.
Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic [00:01:00] violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help.
Now here is Diana.
Welcome, welcome to the podcast once more. I appreciate you coming back to hear some more of Dana Diaz. She is on her second book that she's been talking about, Choking on Shame. And again, she was on the podcast in season three, episode 1 53. So if you haven't heard, part one of this conversation, go back to part one.
But it [00:02:00] would be really great to also listen to episode 1 53 'cause then you would get the whole picture of her story and some really great advice and help for those of you who have been with a narcissist or maybe you're dealing with one now. I'm not gonna go through her bio again.
Everything is in a show notes for you. So without delay, here we go with part two, my conversation with Dana Diaz.
And, I guess I should clarify that, what makes it called narcissistic abuse? It's just when a narcissist abuses you. But the difference is that a narcissist will enact multiple and all abuses in some cases versus, and I'm not trying [00:03:00] to minimize, but like in my childhood, I was physically abused and verbally abused and neglected in many ways in my marriage to this narcissist.
Yes, there was verbal abuse for sure, which we discussed with the cussing 'cause he called me things that became as common as my name. I actually heard them more than my name. Um mm-hmm. There was sexual abuse. And yes, I will debate anybody who tells me that if you're married, you cannot be sexually abused.
I disagree. If you are taking advantage of a woman that does not consensually want to be with you, uh, that is sexual abuse. Yes. There was financial abuse. So many examples of that. Legal abuse, the threatening to, call the authorities, creating the narrative of, you're crazy, you're unstable.
I'm gonna call child services, so I'll have custody of our son if you leave me. I will do this legally to you. It's this constant threat. And then you add in all the other things , the [00:04:00] intimidation, the stalking, you're basically scared for your life.
And I always say it's like, people call it walking on eggshells. I'm like, no, it was a minefield. It was a minefield. Yeah. Because I was stepping very carefully, very cautiously. Every time I opened my mouth, even my facial expressions, I could not say anything or do anything. And World War III would erupt because of my facial expression.
So I was very careful, but it doesn't matter where I stepped, stuff was blowing up here, but I couldn't deal with it or process it. 'cause then something was blowing up over here and then in the midst of that, I'm trying to protect my son and shelter him from as much of it as I could, even though my ex was always trying to drag him into it so that he could blame me for our sons, unhealthy, witness of things that no child should ever have to witness or hear between parents.
So it was, uh, yeah, it was something. And it's interesting because so many people read [00:05:00] Gasping for Air, including the owner of my publishing company. She actually at one point messaged me and said, I thought this was nonfiction. I said, It is. It was my true story. And she says, I can't even believe it. I said, well, you can't make this stuff up.
Trust me. I would not have that kind of imagination. But it is a page turner. So it has appealed to people for entertainment that just like an exciting, uh, dysfunctional relationship read. But for the bulk of people who have been through this type of relationship, I'm glad to report that I get messages every day.
Every single day of people saying that it gave them strength or it helped them to feel less alone because they thought it was just them or, you know, whatever it is. I've had people message me that they're finally leaving. They're divorcing, they're trying to get things in order or whatever it is. And I am certainly not [00:06:00] here saying, go get divorced, leave whoever.
'cause sometimes it's safer for somebody to stay. Um, it, it's just the reality, unfortunately sometimes. But I just want to give people, if nothing else, the hope that. There is something more to life and that no, you were not put here to suffer. And, it hurts my heart when I hear people say that. 'cause I, I remember feeling very much that way.
But that's where the third book comes in. 'cause the third book is actually the sequel. Mm-hmm To gasping for air. We kind of went out of order, kind of like the Star Wars movies did for a while there. But again, I only intended to ever write the one. So gasping for error. Then we have the prequel, which is my childhood, choking on shame.
So coming in March is rising from the ashes where it picks up. Right where gasping for error left off where I am leaving the driveway of the farm that I shared with my ex-husband moving out, moving on with [00:07:00] life. But I thought everything would be fine. I think when you get out of those. Uh, situations you think, oh, everything's fine.
Nothing can go wrong. And, there's a lot of healing to do and things are a little messy while you're doing the healing. You don't necessarily perceive healthy relationships and healthy connections the way a healthy person would because there's this distrust and this anxiety, and we, there's so much still there that has to be dealt with.
It's coming to the realization of those things. And as I said, coming to terms with even my mother who, went no contact with me before I even divorced with my ex, she opted to go no contact. 'cause she said that she could not be her husband's wife and my mother at the same time, and she was choosing to be his wife instead of being my mother.
Mm-hmm. So that was heartbreaking. But this is my last resort and rising from the ashes, like, okay, I'm out of this marriage. Like, there's [00:08:00] one scene, it was hard to write in rising from the ashes where I'm actually on Christmas Eve at her house. I hadn't been invited, just my son had been, but I didn't get to see him Christmas day because of the divorce.
My ex was going to have him. So that was my time with him was Christmas Eve and she took it. Without even consulting with me. So I ended up going with my son. Mm-hmm. I ended up on my knees on Christmas Eve in my mother's basement on the cold ceramic tile floor. Literally begging with my hands clasped, begging her just to be my mother to see me, to come to my wedding.
'cause I'm newly engaged, to this man. I've known many, many, many years and I just wanted her to be a part of that. There was no emotion stone face. And she actually walked away from me and left me there on the floor in tears on Christmas. Mm-hmm. So there's a lot of [00:09:00] heartbreak, but it's a very happy ending.
And, we talked about coming full circle before, but the ending of rising for ashes. I'll give this little snippet. 'cause I haven't really talked about the book to anybody. Not even my husband knows about it. I don't let him read books until they're published. But, the very end actually comes back to my mother that I said, after everything I'd been through my healing, the key to my healing was resolving that very first relationship I had in my life.
I'm getting chills right now just thinking about it because mm-hmm. Everything in my life had to do with my mother rejecting me. But it took somebody saying to me. You can't reject your mother, you can't hate her. You can't have these ill feelings towards her for what she, how she treated you. Because if you do that, you're rejecting a part of yourself.
And that just, that was as eye-opening as telling me I'm a child of God. Because then I had to look at her, uh, and the same person said that I had to put a [00:10:00] picture of my mother up in my house where it was prominence. It couldn't be hidden away somewhere. And um, the very last chapter of the book of Rising from the Ashes is me doing that.
And it was not pretty. And I had some choice words that I cannot say on this podcast to say to that picture. But you know what? I still have the picture right here in my office and I look at it every day. I even say, hi mom. We have no relationship. She has nothing to do with me. We have no communication.
But she's there 'cause she's my mother. And I'm gonna love her anyway because she was just a kid. And I forgive that I had to come to terms with knowing that she came from an abusive household. She had an abusive alcoholic father and endured terrible domestic violence. And she was just a baby when she had me.
And she was a baby [00:11:00] who hadn't resolved her own unhealed trauma. So even though I was her baby and I expected her to handle me better and to know what to do and how to do it, she didn't. And I have to forgive that because I mean, what 16, 17-year-old girl that's in an abusive household would know what to do with a baby she doesn't even want.
So, with that, I just encourage people to maybe look at, I'm not saying it excuses it, but I think mm-hmm. It's helped me get past the past. To look at it with a more loving heart than a resentful one. Because if you hold onto that resentment and that anger and that pain, you don't have room for the blessings and the love and the hope for the future and in the present, everything that's right in front of you.
So that, that's essentially where we go with rising from the ashes. And I want people to hear that message loud [00:12:00] and clear. I'm really glad that you pointed out the forgiveness aspect. 'cause we talk about that a lot. How do you forgive somebody that's done some really horrible things to you?
And they never repent of it. They never ask forgiveness or come around like we want them to. But I'm glad you mentioned, yeah, I can still forgive my mother in. An aspect of I'm not gonna live or live rent free in my head and ruin the rest of my life. I'm gonna move on with my life and help other people.
But yeah, I respect that. Yes, she is my mother. And that's okay to say that. Yeah. Yeah. She's my mother, but I don't have to let her ruin my life. Exactly. And we move on. I mean, at the end of the day, we're all human. I said it before, but I say [00:13:00] it almost every day. We all make mistakes. And I can own up to mine and not feel badly about it. It's just sometimes you make a mistake, things happen unintentionally, intentionally, we screw up.
But you know, we have to give that same grace to other people, because not everybody. Is at the same level of consciousness. Not everybody is faithful. Even my mother, when she got with her husband, when I was very young, actually, he didn't feel he was not Christian at all. So we stopped going to church.
I actually started getting rides with my friends that were Catholic to, or I'd sleep over at their houses on Saturday nights so I could go to Sunday mass with them. But, even in college, I was able to drive, so I would go myself and I continued that. But, you know, it's about respect. We can't
assume that everybody thinks like we do because they don't, not everybody comes from the same history that we come from. [00:14:00] Geographic differences, cultural differences. We're all so unique and that's a beautiful thing, but even within our own families, she has the right to make her own choices.
Mm-hmm. She has turned herself away from God, but that is her choice. It is not my place for anyone else's to, force her somewhere where she doesn't feel that she wants to be. But again, that's between her and God. But, um, it's not my place, so I have to respect it, understand that she has the right, and I almost, got even to the point in my healing where I was like, you know, I actually have to appreciate even how she, stood her ground as far as her relationship with me. As terrible it is as it is to reject your own child. She had a very clear idea, of what she wanted in life and how she wanted to live her life. Whether I agree with that or not. She was being true to herself and [00:15:00] respecting herself.
And self-love is not something that I had the privilege of, even knowing what that was for most of my life. And I still, every once in a while have to, give myself a pat on the back or remind myself I'm pretty okay. You know? 'cause I grew up with such terrible self-esteem and that first marriage didn't help at all.
But my mother always had a sense of exactly who she was and what she wanted, and I did not fit into that. So, there's things I think we can learn from people like that and understand and just give them that grace that they're having their own human experience. And it may not be the path we walked, may not be the way we would've walked it, but that's what they're doing.
And just have to love them through it. Pray for them, hope for them. But at the end of the day, we also have to do what gives ourselves some inner peace, which sometimes means, not having that relationship with them. So, I respect that about her. We have, like I said, we are completely estranged, but my [00:16:00] life goes on and I have her picture here in my office and I look at it every day and.
It's all right. It's okay because God loves me again. I'm his child and he loves my mother too. Even though she's made mistakes, and hopefully one day she'll realize that, there is love in her life and that she is worth more than what she is allowed herself to have. And open herself up to that.
But that is not my place to force her to do so. Hmm. I'm very fortunate that it's, my narcissist ex, we have no contact at all. Because we didn't have any children together, which looking back I am grateful for that. I didn't bring children into that marriage. Yeah. To suffer along with me, it would've been a different ending.
But yeah, I'm able, to say that I've healed. Significantly, because I'm not in that relationship. Yes. With him, I don't [00:17:00] have to have any contact. 'cause when you get out of that, you have a better perspective as to what you went through rather than you're still in it and you're still dealing with this person and, they're trying to make your life, miserable.
I was really fortunate that I just cut 'em off. And you have to, unfortunately, that's the only way, and I try to tell people that you can't, there is no healing when you're still in those circumstances. But it's impossible. I always tell people, I liken it to growing flowers in your garden.
If you plant the seeds and then as soon as the flowers start blooming, you start giving them chemicals and poison and. They're not gonna keep growing. You cannot heal something. You cannot grow as a human being if you're still in that toxicity. And it's a shame sometimes that we have to cut off people that are biologically, family.
But, I think that [00:18:00] the way to look at that and what has been my experience in life from a very young age is that, we're all part of God's family. And I cannot tell you how much of a difference it has made since, sadly not having contact with my abusive mother and stepfather.
And I don't have contact with my ex either and many other people who have enabled them and sided with them in some way. But, uh, or they have cut contact with me, which is fine, but it's amazing now that they're kind of out of the way, like pulling weeds outta that same garden, now the weeds are gone.
So I can see the other flowers that were always there and they're rooting for me and they're growing with me, and they're wanting me to grow it all and, and want me to be the beautiful flower that I can be. And it's just astounding to me the difference that having supportive, encouraging positive people around you, that what that makes versus being in those situations where every [00:19:00] single day I was diminished, insulted, ridiculed, demeaned.
It just any negative adjective you can come up with is what that experience is like. But then you turn that around. You can't help but smile when somebody speaks positivity to you or encourages you, and then you wanna do that to others. And it has this beautiful domino effect because I know people, there's that thing called resting bee face.
You know that? Mm-hmm. People used to say that I had that back then, and it wasn't that I was just. I was miserable, I was suffering. I wasn't, there was nothing to smile about. But, um, now it's, it, it's nice because I run into people sometimes that I haven't seen in years. And I know one person said, oh, it's good to see you smile again.
It's good to see you laughing. Or, you know, one person, the best compliments I've had, they looked at me just physically, they're like, you look healthy. Because I had, I had gotten [00:20:00] so sickly physically during that. Mm-hmm. And especially towards the end of my marriage with my first husband that, yeah, even my physical health has improved with my mental health.
So, and it's such an empowering thing to, to know like, okay, I actually had the choice. You know? Thankfully I was able to get out of it alive, so to speak. And everything's just really good now. Everything's really good. It's giving me that time and that space now to just tweak those little things.
I call them like bruises that sometimes, somebody might say or do something and that bruise gets poked a little. I'm like, Ooh, that hurts. That didn't feel good. But I can kind of explore that a little more now and be like, okay. We still, I don't think the healing journey ever ends, but I think that, no, you know, we take those opportunities when our, when our bruises get poked a little bit to say like, okay, what do we still have here to work out?
Where is that coming from? And then [00:21:00] deal with it. Because more times than not, it's just, it's the past. I always tell people it's never about the presence and usually when somebody comes at you as in confrontational, abusive, mistreats you in some way, it doesn't even have to do with you. It has to do with them.
Yes, it's their unhealed trauma speaking to you. It's their issues with themselves that they just can't stand something that they see about you, that it's your light that's disturbing their peace. It's your potential, your achievement that's making them feel. All that yucky stuff they already feel about themselves.
But, all you can do is love. I just try to remind myself, even when, believe me, there's, I always say there's the angel and the devil on my shoulders, and the devil just wants to tell 'em a few f-bombs and say a few things, but then the angels like, love them, love them. And I just take a deep breath and okay, this is coming from a source of pain.
Remind myself of that. I know what that's like. It's not gonna be helpful. It's not gonna be productive or [00:22:00] get anywhere if we're gonna go back at 'em, with more evil words and nastiness. We're just gonna love, and some people aren't receptive. I had that experience last week and, a very, very nasty person, who told me the most vicious and awful thing that I won't even repeat.
And I went back to them with love and said, I hear pain in what you said to me, and I understand this isn't about me, but I wish that one day you would. Find out how wonderful you are and love yourself enough to respect and value other people's lives as well. And she came at me with, an equally, just like her first message that I deserved what she said to me in the beginning.
And that's that. Some people just don't wanna hear it. They don't wanna receive it. But that's not gonna change who I am or make me change my character. I'm still gonna come from a good place and remind myself there is evil in the world. There are people in this world that want to sit with their demons and stay there forever more.
All I can [00:23:00] do is love them and pray for them. That's it. I can't, I just like my mother, I can't make that choice for them. It's kind of like drug and alcohol addiction. They have to be able, just like we had to when we were in our situations, you have to make the choice for yourself. Nobody could have told me, I had people say, you don't look happy, or, he's a real this or that, and you should get out.
You think, I don't know that you don't think, I don't know. I was being mistreated. Of course I did. It's just not that easy to walk away, especially when you do have a child with a person, it makes it that much more complicated. But if nothing else, but legally and financially, it's a little more complicated.
Yeah, there's just so much there. But, all in all, I just hope people know, know that there, there's choices, there's hope, and, and one of the biggest choices you can make, and kind of like how I said about me and my sister, is just to choose where you're coming from. Choose to come from a place of love because, putting yourself out there and behaving in negative ways, behaving in, ways [00:24:00] that basically, like they're acting, it's not gonna get you anywhere and it's not gonna solve that.
This world is angry and full of hate more now than ever. And I don't think we need to participate in that hatred in that division. We need to actually turn that around a little bit and we all can make that difference by starting with the people in our house. Well start with ourselves and then your kids, your spouse, your whoever, your grandma, your coworkers, the person at church, the person that you run into at the library or the post office or wherever.
Just be kind. Be kind. And maybe then they'll be a little kinder that day too, to somebody else. Hmm. I agree with that. I wanted to comment on what you said about the bruises, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I'm 52 and I had some triggers this past year and just brought up some, stuff from my past that I couldn't deal with the, the physical response to those memories.
And for the first time in my [00:25:00] life, I'm going to a professional therapist and a psychologist and, I've had some peer counseling and peer groups that were extremely helpful that I'm, really glad that I have a therapist, to help me through these bruises or triggers
that have come up in my life right now. I mean, I was married to my ex and I left in 2008. That was a long time ago, but it's never too late to get some help and to reach out to get help with hundred percent some of these things. I know my dear friend that I do mending this all groups with, she's a senior citizen now and she just wrote her book of her life after, so.
Uh, her abuse was from her childhood and she had some memory loss, but, she's finally getting to write her book [00:26:00] now. And she's a fantastic writer as well. But what would you say to folks that they hear you and they see you writing these books about your experience, but they're afraid to write their story.
They're like, people are gonna judge me. They're not gonna like what I say, or they're gonna sue me. Or what would you say to somebody that might be thinking about writing their story. Well, those are all very valid concerns and as somebody who is now publishing book three, they are still valid concerns.
I am actually surprised that I have not faced any legal consequences, although, mm-hmm. On the other hand, it's very unlikely. In my, at least from my experience, I don't know many people who would like raise their hands loudly and say, oh, that's me in that book. You don't wanna claim that you're that person who did these awful things.
But I tried to [00:27:00] be, I wrote my stories. I actually, gasping for air came from a journal that I kept when, it was towards the end of my marriage to my first husband, because I honestly thought that I was going to end up dead. And that it would be made to look like an accident or there would be some excuse, and I wanted there to be a record of what was really going on in that house.
Wow. So the stories came out of that journal. So if nothing else, I tell people just journal, because sometimes I was joking with a friend this week, like some days my mind is like a bingo. Like that barrel, they spin in bingo, before they pull the little thing out. Like it's all this stuff just jumbling around six that sometimes if you just do, I've heard it called a brain dump.
I've heard it called free writing. But just write. Just write everything. Don't monitor yourself. Don't feel bad. You let it come out however it comes out, even if it's not how you would normally talk. Say what [00:28:00] you have to say. Be angry, be hurt, cry, whatever. Get it out. Because the interesting thing is that.
One, you'll feel better because it's like outside of you now. It's literally like extracting that pain from you and putting it on something else. It does actually make you feel mentally better, but you'll notice after a while when you go back, you'll start noticing patterns because visually you learn differently than mentally, if that makes any sense.
So like even when I was writing Gasping for actually even the third book, all of my writing I'd read and have to revise over and over, and I would have a wake up in the middle of the night with. Oh my gosh. Like my brain just realized after I've written these stories, that this, it's kind of like connecting the dots, like a, an a detective or investigator trying to figure out a murder with all the strings on the walls pointing to this and that.
It's like your brain starts [00:29:00] doing these, connect the dots, and you start making these connections and realizing things you hadn't seen before. Because when it's all in your head, it's, it is just jumbling around like that bingo barrel. Um mm-hmm. So it's good to get it out of you, but if you actually do wanna get into publishing a story Yes.
They're, unfortunately, those fears are valid. They are always going to be there because as long as something is in print, if somebody does feel, even if you change their names, even if you change other geographical details, different things. If somebody can provide enough evidence that those circumstances or that person or whatever it was, it is actually them and wants to take you to court.
They unfortunately do have a case. And so, I would definitely advise speaking to an attorney speaking to, different insurance companies. 'cause there are insurances you could get to cover to have that protection, for libel really, and things like that. Yes. I didn't know [00:30:00] that. Yeah, it's an expense, but, it's one worth having if you're gonna be speaking your truth.
But the, thing that's been the struggle for me has been the judgment because surprisingly, the judgment has not even come from the people who have done awful things to me. It has come from their family members, which mm-hmm are and were my family members. You'd be surprised how many people just don't wanna believe you and we'll call you all kinds of things under the sun.
And on the lighter end. 'cause you weren't there. They weren't where you were. They weren't there. They didn't see all that. They didn't. But the thing is, for them to believe you, they have to believe they love a monster. Mm-hmm. You see what I'm saying? Yep. That's pretty much it. My ex-mother-in-law, who I loved like a mother, 'cause she was a mother to me all those years, my mother was not my sister-in-law, who is my best friend.
Even people in [00:31:00] my life, mutual friends, even. People that taught my son at his school that got word and read the book, and now for you to say those things about him or that, or even about my mother, whatever, in that book, I have to be the villain so that they feel better about associating with somebody who's capable of doing the things that I claim they did.
So the judgment is honestly the biggest thing, but I keep, I just, I say it almost every day. God is the only judge. God is the only judge. You know what? And I know my truth. I know my truth firmly, and I can't let other people get me down. And let me tell you, strangers will say the most vile things, the most horrendous things behind an email or a social media post, or however they communicate with you, because they have that anonymity behind a screen.
Yeah. And it is cruel. The things I have been told, such horrific things [00:32:00] and here I am, like I'm just trying to help people heal. I think I'm doing a good thing. And, the pushback is very strong. But what I've noticed and what I have to tell myself to keep putting one foot in front of the other is that those are the people, the ones who go through that great effort to go to my website and click on contact Dana to email me, or, put the post out or however they communicate their nastiness to me.
I hit something, I hit some nail on the head. I triggered, I poked one of their bruises. That's what that is. And so in a sense, I look at those like, okay, I hear the pain. I wanna love them and help them, but they're not receptive right now. And that's okay. Hopefully that will come. But I gotta say, okay, good job, Dana.
'cause something I said or did, got to them. They can't let it go. It's haunting them. So maybe that's the propellant for change. Maybe that's the thing that's gonna compel [00:33:00] them, to change their circumstances or to take hold, take control of their life, and get that healing that they need. Because I wanna touch upon real quick what you said.
I'm 49, let me tell you, I get so many people that contact me. I am actually, I just started this month, co-leading a women's group for healing from childhood abuse. And the thing that we get, the comment we get the most is that people that are our age, forties, fifties, sixties, even, I've even had a few in the seventies, that they kind of blame themselves.
They shame themselves because, well, why now? Why am I just, how come it took me so long? I'm gonna answer that right now for you and I and for all these people that have said that to themselves. We were trying to live. We were trying to survive. Yes. Number one, when we got out, we had to go to work every day like we probably still do now.
We were raising children possibly, which is not an easy [00:34:00] task. We had family commitments, church commitments, school, whatever it was we were. Life gets very busy. Life is very distracting, but I feel like when you get to where we're about in age, like for example, my son, he's gonna be 22, very soon.
He bought his own house. He's moved up. When you start to be left with, yeah, when you start to be left with your own thoughts and you have time to reflect back and you're not in this constant hustle and bustle and have to and got and dah. Then you're like, oh my God, what the hell happened to me? You start to think back on the past, like, okay, and then when those things hit you, when somebody does say that thing or poke that bruise, you have the time and you're like, oh, oh, is that about, that was so long ago.
And that's when you start really thinking about it. And that's when you have the opportunity and the time, to usually take the reins of your healing. So, if that's [00:35:00] any incentive, I think it's always good, whether you have a therapist or a group or whatever. There's so many, there's goat yoga, there's musical, healing, modalities.
There's so many different options available to people right now that no matter what your niche is, so to speak, you can find something that will help you resolve all those feelings of the past, no matter what age you are. Yeah. Reach out to one of us. Yes. You all out there? We have resources. We know people Yes.
Wherever you are. Even in other parts of the world. Yes. So I want to make sure that the folks know where to get your books. Not a problem. You can go to my website, dana s diaz.com, the links for the two that are out are there. And then the third, book will be on there when it comes out. Or you can go straight to Amazon anywhere.
Books are sold online. I can't get the books on [00:36:00] shelves of the major retailers because of the content and the language. They, have all rejected the, application to have them on the bookshelves, but you can go anywhere online. I have it in it, it's on Kindle, so you can get the ebook if you like, having it on your phone or your iPad or whatever.
Sometimes that's easier. It's more affordable. And if you are in an abusive situation still, that would be the best option because you don't want a book that says abuse in the title sitting on your coffee table. So, but it is available wherever books are sold online. This has been great to have you back on the show again and your invitation, is
open door for you. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. I know you're gonna write some more books. You're gonna have a big, long series like Star Wars here and, yeah, I'll eat it right up here. Just come back on, let me know if you have any, anything else to share with us. It's good to see [00:37:00] you. I, so related to what you shared, thank you so eloquently today.
I appreciate that. And again, I just want everybody to know that there is hope. And there are people that are behind you. Even if you think you're alone, we're all with you and God is with you most importantly. Amen. God bless you. You as well.
Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.

This week Diana welcomes back Dana Diaz, a bestselling author, to discuss her new book 'Choking on Shame.' Dana shares her personal journey of enduring narcissistic abuse from childhood into her adulthood and offers insights on how she managed to move forward. She talks about her first book, 'Gasping for Air,' and introduces her upcoming works. Dana emphasizes the importance of faith and resilience, providing hope and understanding to fellow victims of abuse. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on the complexities of overcoming trauma and finding one's true purpose.
00:00 Sponsor Message: 7 5 3 Academy00:48 Introduction to the Podcast01:21 Welcoming Back Dana Diaz02:24 Dana Diaz's New Book: Choking on Shame05:34 Dana's Journey Through Abuse08:31 Finding Faith and Purpose12:25 Overcoming Childhood Trauma18:40 Reflections on Narcissistic Relationships28:18 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser
About Dana S. Diaz
Dana S. Diaz is a wife, mother, and author of the best-selling book GASPING FOR AIR: THE STRANGLEHOLD OF NARCISSISTIC ABUSE. In addition to her life-long experience with narcissistic abuse, Dana's education in journalism and psychology at DePaul University in Chicago gave her the ability to accurately verbalize and express how narcissistic abuse creates confusion and conflict within victims, so that she can help other victims know they are not alone and better understand their own circumstances. Today, Dana is a proud voice for fellow victims who are unable, afraid, or ashamed to share their experiences. She has been a guest on nearly two hundred podcasts globally, striving to create awareness and understanding to ensure victims are given the support they need to first understand their situation and then begin the healing process. She has also been a featured speaker in two Summits for healing after trauma. Her first book, chronicling her own abusive marriage that lasted nearly three decades, started as a journal that she hid under the couch cushion in the basement. Dana's second book, CHOKING ON SHAME: THE SCAPEGOAT CHILD IN A NARCISSISTIC FAMILY, was a #1 New Release on Amazon after its mid-September release. The book delves into Dana's life as an unwanted pregnancy and child, and the physical and verbal abuse she endured as a result. The final book in the narcissist trilogy, SWALLOWING MY PRIDE, is expected to be released in early 2025. This sequel to GFA brings the first two books full circle with recovery, healing, new love, and another narcissist Dana hadn't seen coming.
Learn more about Dana, her book, CHOKING ON SHAME, available at https://www.danasdiaz.com as of September 9th. 
 
Website: https://dswministries.org
Email: diana@dswministries.org
Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/
Social media links:
Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879
Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma
Affiliate links:
Our Sponsor: 753 Academy:
https://www.753academy.com/
Can’t travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here!
https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP
An easy way to help my ministry:
https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/
A donation link:
https://dswministries.org/donate/
 
Dana Diaz
[00:00:00] I do have a sponsor 7 5 3 Academy. Our martial art program specialized in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. Colli. We take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Our fitness community is friendly and supportive without the over the top muscle gym atmosphere.
Our coaching staff are professionally trained with over 30 years of experience. Get started by claiming your free class voucher. So go to the link in the show notes. This is in the Phoenix Metro area, so reach out to Coach David and coach Eric over at 7 5 3 Academy.
Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic [00:01:00] violence advocate, Diana. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help.
Now here is Diana.
Hello everyone. Welcome. Come on in. Glad to have you here for the regular listeners as well as some new folks coming in. We have a terrific show for you today, as always. We have a repeat guest today. Dana Diaz is on the show. She was here in season three, episode 1 53, talking about having a relationship with a narcissist, [00:02:00] which many of us have experienced.
So if you haven't. Watch that episode. I really encourage you to go back and listen to it. It's excellent. The first time she was here. She was talking about her book, Gasping for Air, which is her story of, narcissistic abuse. And this time she's coming on because she just released a new book called Choking on Shame.
Boy, what a title. Have you dealt with shame like the rest of us? Um, yeah, that's a great verb to use, a description to use choking. So I'm very intrigued about hearing about her second book since her first book was excellent.
Okay, so here is her book.
Very [00:03:00] engaging cover, a stranglehold of narcissistic abuse. Again, very descriptive, great title. This book is thick. it's very well written.
Some parts are very tough to read, as you would imagine, just like. Maybe your story is hard. Your story has some hard sections in it. But before I bring her on the show, I'm gonna just briefly, read her bio again. For those that are new and haven't, met Dana. Dana Diaz is a wife, mother, and author of the bestselling book, Gasping for Air, the Stranglehold of Narcissistic Abuse.
Dana has had lifelong experience with narcissistic abuse beginning in childhood. Her education in journalism and [00:04:00] psychology at DePaul University in Chicago gave her the ability to accurately verbalize and express how narcissistic abuse creates confusion and conflict within victims so that she can help other victims know that they are not alone and better understand their own circumstances.
Today Dana is a proud voice for fellow victims who are unable, afraid, or ashamed to share their experiences. She strives to create awareness and understanding to ensure victims are given the support they need to first understand their situation and then begin the healing process. Her first book, chronicling her own abusive marriage that lasted nearly three decades, started as a journal.
She hid [00:05:00] under the couch cushion in the basement. Dana is in the process of publishing the prequel and sequel to Gasping for Air. Learn more about Dana at www.danasdiaz.com.
So I know that you're going to enjoy this interview, as much as the first one. So here we go with my second conversation with Dana Diaz. Enjoy.
I am so excited to have back on the show, my friend Dan Diaz. Thank you for coming on the show again. Oh, I'm so happy I'm back. I just am delighted whenever somebody invites me back on a podcast because there's so many, as we were just talking about, there's so many things, layers to abuse and the things we endure.
Um, so there's so much to talk about that's hard to cram into a [00:06:00] half hour or an hour show. So thank you for inviting me back. I appreciate it. Yeah. Well, I like having repeat guests because I already like you. I already know you and you have more to share with us with your new books. And so I'm real excited to hear what you have to say to the folks.
I did give, a little bio before you came on, but if you could do like a synopsis, a summary of your abuse story, just as a reminder of what you've gone through so far.
Yeah, absolutely. I'm 49 years old, so it's been a ride. But my first book actually covered my 25 year relationship and first marriage, to an abusive narcissist.
And I know we use this word narcissist very freely in society, but what I'm talking about is somebody that is so, intent on fulfilling their [00:07:00] egotistical need for power and control, that they will go to the extent of, domestic violence and things like that, various abuses, to feel that, to fulfill that ego of theirs.
And so, that covered that. But then after that book came out, the only book I ever meant, to put out. So many people had questions about, well, how does somebody end up in a relationship like that? And my immediate answer was, well, that was my childhood because I was born to a teenage mother who didn't want me.
And she, in fact, she had her tubes tied immediately after my birth, and I was born on her 17th birthday. They apparently did that in the seventies. But, then she got married to a man who was not my father and who wanted me even less because I was not his biological child. And so I endured physical and verbal abuse and emotional neglect and, had a pretty hard time trying to figure out my place in the world, especially when I'd go to school thinking, okay, I'm okay [00:08:00] here.
I'm safe here. And then I get bullied everywhere I turn, I'm facing adversity and opposition and being put in situations where I'm not good enough and I'm not this and I'm not that. And so what am I, what am I. But then we kind of answer that question in the third book, released March 31st. And that one is called Rising from the Ashes. Breaking the Cycle of Narcissistic Abuse. Yes, rising out of it. But, you know, it's sad that it took me till my late forties to really understand, and I think more so internalize and change my mindset about who I am and where my place really is in this world.
Because when you're abused, I think anybody who is listening, who you know, has had that experience, it's part of your soul, feels like it's taken away. [00:09:00] Your independence, your autonomy, I love this. I have this scene in my third book, which. I'm crying, I'm upset because I'm like, I have no contact with my abusive mother and stepfather.
I have ended my, relationship, divorced my ex-husband who is abusive. I should be happy. Things are going great. Marrying a man that I've known his family 20 years and he's the sweetest, gentlest, most patient person I've ever met in my life. And so what I really needed, but it was like I still wasn't happy.
I was still suffering. I was in still so much pain, but there was no external outward reason for it. I had so many blessings all around me but I couldn't see it because I was still holding on to that victim mindset, that pain. And my priest looked me in my eye and he says, my dear. The problem is, is you are still thinking like you're [00:10:00] the daughter of a mother who rejected you, but you're not.
He said, you're here because God intended for you to be here. She may not have wanted you, but he wanted you. Here you are God's child. You're not your mother's child. You're God's child. And that's when literally everything turned around for me. Everything turned around. Mm. And, just made me rethink my place in this world that I was like, that's right.
He wouldn't have protected me and had his hand over me through that entire childhood, which I cover in the second book. He wouldn't have protected me from, an ex-husband who was planning to, not have me exist. He wouldn't have done all those things if I wasn't meant to be here to serve his purpose.
I'll never forget the morning that I was just coming out of that first marriage and it literally just came into my head. You should write a book about your experiences. And I'd [00:11:00] never understood what it meant when God spoke to you or put something on your heart. But I literally remember like kind of glancing up like.
Is that you? It's kind of like that old book. Are you there? God, it's me, Margaret. Like, I'm like, is that you book? Oh God. I know, right? We all have that as a staple in grade school, but that was like the same kind of thing. I'm like, looking up, are you there? God, it's me. Like, were you actually did, was that for me?
Like did you, were you talking to me? But I heard it. I heard it loud and clear and that's what I did and it's amazing, as I said that I only ever meant to write the one book and then it led to the second one and now it's. Led to people wanting more. And even now people are like, what about a fourth book?
I'm like, the third one isn't even out yet. But now I'm like, actually there is a fourth book in me , and half written already, ironically, because there are so many stories that are pulled out to keep these books. I mean, I know they're thick, but they're pretty quick reads. But, it's been a heck of a ride.
But again, I go back to the faith and I think that [00:12:00] as much as people say stay away from religion, politics, when it comes to God, we are all here because we are his children. And once, like I said, I, I got that and somebody said that to me. I'm like, everything changed. Everything changed. It's like I woke up, like my eyes opened up and I said, oh my gosh, I am here.
And let me tell you a quick story. And I might have told this on the first podcast, but. During my childhood, and I covered this in my second book, which is called Choking on Shame, the Scapegoat Child in a Narcissistic Family. When you're being raised by two narcissists, it's difficult because I was that kid that always wanted to achieve more, more, doing everything right.
I was the best at everything. Honor roll. I taught myself to play piano. I was first chair viola in two orchestras, and like whatever it was, I wanted to do things that would make my parents proud. But it was never enough. It was never enough because I couldn't [00:13:00] be any more than what they wanted me to be, which was nothing, right?
So that they could feel better about the way they were treating me. But the irony is, is that as I was going through high school, I really wanted to go to beauty school. I so desperately wanted to do like makeup and facials and stuff. I was really interested in that and, nope. Again, narcissists. They can't brag about a daughter going to beauty school when cousin Joey's going to study engineering and that one's going to study physical therapy or become a doctor.
It wasn't brag worthy. Mm-hmm. So they said, you have to go to college. And I'm like, what am I gonna do in college? I mean, yeah, I got good grades, but I didn't wanna go to college. I wanted to go to beauty school. Well, guess what? I went to college. I ended up going to DePaul University in Chicago. Good Catholic girl.
Stayed with my faith. I loved the experience, honestly, and I'm glad I did it. But, uh, there's no classes on beauty over there or fashion or [00:14:00] anything unless you wanna be a fashion designer. And I didn't wanna do that. Mm-hmm. But I definitely studied psychology because I knew that I wanted to be
in a better mindset myself, even that young. But the funny thing was that all my professors pushed me more towards public speaking and writing. So I went into the journalism program, came out of there. That's about when I met my ex-husband, and again, another narcissist. He would not support me in any efforts to become a journalist or, or work in any kind of media, even, you know, small town, little cable media, because joy, success, achievement, that would outshine anything that he could possibly, or that he thought he could, achieve himself.
So he had me cleaning houses, in this podunk town that he moved us to in the Midwest. And um, that was fine. I was one, I've always been one of those people, like, if I'm gonna do something, I'm just gonna do it. Give [00:15:00] 200%. I was reliable. I was trustworthy. I ended up building a six figure empire with this cleaning business and had a crew of eight people.
But where I'm going with all this is that, so when I get this idea after that divorce, that I should write this book, it was interesting because I looked back and I thought, talk about coming full circle here. I was in this abusive childhood. I remember 12 years old was the first time I actually thought like I would never want anybody else to endure what I have.
And I know I have not even had the most horrific childhood. Other people, most certainly have endured worse, but I knew I wanted to help children that were victims of child abuse so that they could live better lives as adults, and not be stuck in that situation or repeat those cycles with their children.
So here I was [00:16:00] 45 years old, have endured this childhood, have endured this abuse, get this idea to write a book, and then I'm like, oh, so this is why you did this to me. God, this is why I couldn't go to beauty school. I had to endure all this stuff, and then you made me go to college. Or you at least put me with two parents who absolutely would not hear anything other than me going to college.
I end up in the journalism program. Now I have a degree in journalism that I've never used, but now I've had all these experiences that I can actually verbalize. Help victims of abuse. Mm-hmm. It was like one of those epiphanies where like you're like, oh, that's why you did this all. Like, but we don't see it when we're going through things.
We can't see the light at the end. We can't see that there is reason we get, we kind of drown ourselves in the sorrow and the self pity. And it's not to say the things that I endured weren't worthy of, that they were, [00:17:00] you know, awful. Other people have had more awful circumstances, but I think that's the thing that you have to come to at the end of it is to trust.
You have to trust God. He's not putting you through anything because I mean, there were times where I'm like, what did I do? What did I do? Like I'm a good girl. Like I haven't, I've made mistakes. We all do. But like, what have I done that was so bad that I deserve this? And I think so many people fall into that and then they start shaming themselves, blaming themselves, blaming God sometimes turning away from him.
And for me, it was just, it. He was ever present. There would be people that would come into my life at certain points, whether momentarily or for, some amount of time that would sort of kind of like, like a shepherd kind of herd me back, like into God's light. And so it was like, I couldn't see it until I was there, until the last few years where I'm like, oh, okay, God, I see this now.
But maybe some of us aren't meant to understand or [00:18:00] even know. Why and what and all this. But we have to trust, we have to trust that even the bad stuff is meant for us. And it's meant for a specific reason and it's meant for our specific, unique purpose in this world and in this life. And so hopefully that gives other, somebody some hope that no matter what their circumstance, there's a reason for it.
And it might not even be for you, it might be for somebody else's benefit or for them to learn a lesson. I mean, we, there we're all so interconnected, but we all are a source from God.
Hmm. I totally agree with that. Agree. I know you kind of, glossed over your, ex-husband and the suffering you went through with him in gasping for air.
I remember that story. Yeah. Of you were asleep in your house. With your son, and you heard somebody unlocking the door downstairs and [00:19:00] it was your ex-husband just barging in, in the middle, middle of the night, was barging in and took your son and you're wrestling with him downstairs trying to keep him, literally from taking him away from you.
And we talked about this before the podcast about the language in your book. The words that he would call you in front of your son and trying to sneak into your house in the middle of the night. That's a monster. That is a monster, yeah. That you were married to. And that must have been really terrifying. How do you move forward from that?
That's why I wrote the second book, because I came out of this childhood basically being conditioned to think that I had to earn love, that I wasn't inherently worthy of it. And it's hard to even love yourself when you think you have to earn love or that, you know, even as a kid, and certainly as an adult, I'd look around , I notice [00:20:00] other families and how they operate.
Or when I was playing at a little friend's house or having dinner at somebody's house as an adult, like everybody's mother loves them. Every family has dysfunction. But it's family. You stick together and a mother loves all her children, or at least she's supposed to. But I think that's the part that I wrestled with the most was that my mother did not, I mean, she did not want me before I was born.
She did not endear herself after, to me after I was born. In fact, after I was born, um, my grandma and I were just talking about this recently that, my grandma and great grandmama came to the hospital and my mother had no intention of bringing me home. She was gonna adopt me out or leave me there, whatever.
And my grandma said, oh, no, this is our first grandchild, our first great-grandchild. No, no, we are taking her home. And my grandma said she paid the bill and my grandma took me home with her, and that's who I was with. But at the point where my mother got [00:21:00] married, or, moved in, I should say, before she got married to her husband, who she is still married to after
almost 40 years. Um, well, no, it's been just over 40 years actually. But, somebody thought it was a good idea for me to go and live with them because, it's kind of interesting looking at my mother's situation. You know, her family came from Puerto Rico, both of her parents, and they lived in Chicago.
They had everything they needed, but certainly weren't living the life that she thought she should have. And she was a very, oh, just a stunning, stunning young woman. Um, and I think she knew it and she knew that she could have a better life without having to necessarily, go the route that a lot of people would.
And I'm trying to be very careful how I word that, as you can see, because I don't wanna judge her. That's a whole other thing that I deal with in the third book is my relationship and my feelings about her. But the childhood [00:22:00] being raised by somebody like that who's telling me, oh no, we're gonna wear gap clothes now.
We're gonna talk like this. Now we're gonna straighten our hair now. Nobody needs to know where Hispanic, nobody needs to know. He's not your real father. Putting on this facade and basically being told as a small child as early as five years old, I remember being told to lie to people. So I just didn't say anything.
'cause I couldn't keep my mother's story straight. I'm not even sure she could keep her story straight because she told lies about who we were so often. I, I mean, it literally made my head spin and I started saying to my friends as a little girl and all through adulthood, my mother and her stories.
They always had a story for everything. And I think that's what I know readers have expressed when they read that book, choking on Shame is the frustration of what happened versus what was put out. I mean, she is like the media, you know, she's like [00:23:00] a political correspondent that's definitely sided on, one side and it's hers.
Um, it was never on mine, and that's hard as a child to understand that your mother does not love you, that you cannot depend on your mother to take care of you emotionally, physically. Nothing. So, yeah, it was basically like serving me straight up to a monster because the opening of gasping for Air, the first chapter is when he literally walked into my place of work the first time I met him.
And I remember very clearly thinking of the robot had lost in space with the coily arms danger, danger. Like he, he came off arrogant and smug and like he, he had a sense of entitlement and it just, reminded me so much of my stepfather and I thought, oh, I know this personality type. There's no way. But [00:24:00] when you grow up like I did, you're a people pleaser.
You, it doesn't matter. It could be the devil himself. You want that person to be pleased with you. You can't deal inside of yourself with the rejection of anybody or anybody's disapproval or disagreement. It's a hard position to be in and something that's very hard to heal from.
But that's how I ended up with somebody like that. But we have to remember too, that I always joke with people, I have all these pop culture references, but they're helpful. I always say, it's not like Chucky came into my office with, you know, with a weapon and a striped shirt and disheveled hair and said, Hey, baby, that doesn't do it for me.
I don't think anybody would go on a date with Chucky. We have to remember even. Ted Bundy, the serial killer. He was charming and handsome, wasn't he? Mm-hmm. And that's how they lure us in. So even though my initial impression of my ex was [00:25:00] not a good one, I kind of had this hypervigilant detection system.
Like, oh no, I know you buddy. You don't even have to say two words. I know who you are. I didn't listen to it because he didn't approve of me. And that, that just trumped everything I had to win his approval. So once I got him to like me a little bit enough to let me in, well then he saw a vulnerable, codependent, people pleasing opportunity to take advantage and take control.
And that's exactly what he did. But, but I'm gonna be very clear about this because I'm big on accountability. Sure. Looking back, I mean, it's not my fault that I was raised that way. It's not my fault necessarily that I was vulnerable to a romantic relationship like that. But I do see that, for example, my biological father, who I have a wonderful relationship with, he had two daughters and [00:26:00] like my one sister, the oldest, one of the two, they were raised in a home by two loving parents who wanted them, supported them, encouraged them, took them to church every Sunday.
You know what we would think is, uh, I hate to use the word normal, but normal, nice family, right? Oie. Yeah. It would be healthy. She has self-esteem. She knows who she is. She has boundaries. I didn't, I was none of that. So if you would've put her in that same situation I was in with my ex back then, she would not have entertained it in the slightest, right?
She would've set that boundary and said, no, thank you. Have a nice day, and that would've been it. Um, me, like I said, just a little bit different. And I think unfortunately, a lot of people that fall into these romantic relationships do have that sense of needing to have the approval and needing to, please other people for whatever reason.
And sometimes it's ironically not even a bad childhood. Sometimes [00:27:00] it's this personality that we call the parentified daughter. It could be a daughter of a very nice family, but the oldest daughter who had to help mom with the siblings or it could be the daughter mm-hmm. Of an alcoholic or somebody with a drug dependency who had to be the parent to the parents and to the other children.
The parentified daughter that has this intense, uh. She's compelled to nurture and care for and take care of everybody. She subdues her own needs and takes care of everybody. But it's like these narcissistic or abusive people. Um, they can just sense that It's like they can sniff it out because that's exactly what they want you to do.
You jump through the hoops and I will give you a treat. I mean, I liken it and gasping for air, oftentimes to being like a dog. I, if I was a good girl, which he actually used that verbiage with me, good girl, good girl all the time. If I said the right thing, good girl. Even [00:28:00] in the bedroom, good girl. It's sad when I look back on what I tolerated, but, um, if I was a good girl, then he treated me okay for a few days.
But boy, if he saw that, I said or did something he didn't approve of, well, then I suffered consequences.
I think this is a great time to stop our conversation.
For now. I definitely wanna hear the rest of what she has to say. She has given us so many gold nuggets today as she has the first time she was on the show, and I really, want to continue the conversation with her a little bit further though. I do encourage you to come back the next time on the wounds of the Faithful podcast.
I wish you a great week. God bless you and bye for now.
[00:29:00] Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.
 

This week Diana's guest Tim Thomas shares a compelling personal story about surviving a shark attack while spearfishing, and how trust, faith, and human connection played crucial roles in his survival. Thomas discusses the importance of breath work in managing trauma, enhancing sleep quality, and promoting overall well-being. He offers practical exercises and insights into activating the parasympathetic nervous system to foster calm and healing. Thomas also introduces his 'Breathwork in Bed' app designed to help users achieve better sleep and improve their daily lives. The episode concludes with Diana and Tim emphasizing the significance of addressing and healing generational trauma for oneself and future generations.
02:23 Shark Attack Story03:05 The Power of Trust and Faith05:46 Breath Work and Healing from Trauma15:20 Practical Breath Work Exercise21:41 The Importance of Quality Sleep27:24 Conclusion and Contact Information
 https://breathworkinbed.com.au/
 
Free for the first 20 clicks! This is my Breathwork in Bed audio book, narrated by myself;https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V98IW0DdoH_-k4xZGRpokolXMLXhwEP4/view?usp=drivesdk
 
This is the links to the Breathwork in Bed app. The app will guide you to sleep with peace and out of bed with power.Links are for Apple/Smart phones & Google/Androids
Apple link: https://apps.apple.com/app/breathwork-in-bed-app/id6575362285
 
Google Link:https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.breathworkinbed.bibsleepapp20&hl=en
 
www.breathworkinbed.com.au
https://www.instagram.com/breathworkinbed/
 
https://www.facebook.com/breathworkinbed
 
This is the tutorial for the breath of PEACE and POSSIBILITYhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1QsuCHJ7UcHrwBIVQp9FTrVvgJGbMjRSw/view?usp=sharing
 
Website: https://dswministries.org
Email: diana@dswministries.org
Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/
Social media links:
Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879
Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma
Affiliate links:
Our Sponsor: 753 Academy:
https://www.753academy.com/
Can’t travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here!
https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP
An easy way to help my ministry:
https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/
A donation link:
https://dswministries.org/donate/
 
Tim Thomas Part 2
[00:00:00] Last time on the wounds of the Faithful podcast.
Tim Thomas 2: I know there's a shark story somewhere.
How does the shark come into play with, is that, just something you survived or is that.
Oh, look, that was a fun NBE near death experience where, um, okay. Yeah. Very relevant. It was the classic one where you have your life flashing before your eyes. Right. Um, and the important part about isn't so much the shark attack in the, in the context of a, a, let's say Christian faith afterwards, because I, I love the ocean, I love spearfishing.
And there's always sharks where there's fish when we're chasing fish. There's, it's always a good sign when there's sharks around because that tells you you're in the right area. And it's a fun story. Like this thing had my leg, and I don't believe it when people say, oh, I punched it and then it went away.
I'm stabbing this thing in the eye and it's not letting go. And I'm about to drown, right? As a fighter, I've taken a lot of hits, but never, ever, ever has my body [00:01:00] felt like a ragdoll being shaken by a dog. Mm-hmm. Um, so I literally felt that my body going, oh yeah, yeah.
Like just so rapidly shook. I'm like, whoa.
Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, Diana. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help.
Now here is Diana.
Tim Thomas 2: Hey folks, thanks for coming back to the podcast. We're back listening to part two of my conversation with Tim Thomas. So far it's been really exciting, hasn't it? He is definitely a [00:02:00] storyteller. We got more of that for you today. So I'm not going to review, his bio. You can read that in the show notes.
And of course, as always, I tell you to go back and listen to part one if you have not done so already. But, so hold onto your seats and here's part two of my conversation with Tim Thomas. Enjoy.
I had my mate Jimmy. Now Jimmy was a fellow commando, and where we train is a place called the Kill House, where we get very used to shooting close to each other. And he was coming down and he had this look in his eye saying, I got this and I got you.
And it was so strange, even though I'm about to drown, like it wasn't a big shark, it was maybe two meters. But you, like I said, the power it had was surprising. And, and I'm getting tangled up in my float line and Jimmy's coming down and I look in his eyes. And like I said, as much as I was about to die, the [00:03:00] trust that went through my system had me completely relax and be at peace.
And it was at that moment I realized, you know, when times get tough, as humans, we think, oh, I need more stuff to feel secure. We don't need more stuff, we need more trust. Mm-hmm. And it's in that trust that we can find our rest. My mother always says, we don't find, rest until we rest in the Lord.
You know, it's pretty hard to find trust in another human being, but you can find it, you know, in the above. And on this occasion, I got a taste of that through another human. So I was able to turn my body, give him a shot, and his spear from his spear gun went straight through the shark that was hanging onto my leg.
And look, long story short. I survived and, lived to tell the story. But afterwards, and the point I need to sort of make here is, afterwards someone said, when you saw your life flashing before your eyes, do you think that was a [00:04:00] spiritual experience? And I'm like, no. And here's why.
Really? Yeah. No, it wasn't. It was cool. It was new. I'd never seen it before, but it was just my life through my eyes. Okay. I didn't get any other perspective. It was just my life seen through my own eyes. If that was a spiritual experience, I would be seeing, the sequence of events of my life and how that one action impacted others.
I've got the faith to know that, when this body of mine goes back into the earth. God will say, here's your life as you saw it. Now here's your life as I saw it.
But faith to me is not so much whether God exists 'cause he simply does or doesn't. Faith to me is knowing that my everyday life is creating powerful and positive impacts outside of my awareness.
Well, I'm glad that you had a friend that was there for you to spearhead that, that shark. Now, for me, [00:05:00] that would've been a, you know, see a Jesus moment. If, if I hadn't already been a Christian, I would've definitely gotten on board with that shark hanging onto my leg and shaking me like a ragdoll, as you eloquently, uh, displayed.
So I'm like, well, I'm about to drown anyway. I'm as well, you know, forego a finger. So I put my finger inside the corner of this shark's mouth, and I'm feeling around inside its mouth of the on switch. I flick it on and then boom, that's when it, lets go. And before that I'd stabbed this thing in the eye.
Jimmy had speared this thing, let's go when I turn this shark shoot on, and then I swim to the surface and take the sweetest breath of air I've ever had. Right? Oh, that was probably a million dollar breath right there. I wanted to give you, enough time to talk about your breath work that, you're so passionate about.
How does it work and how can it help, those of us that have gone through some really severe trauma, [00:06:00] like you've talked about shark attacks, PTSD, war, illness, losing your loved ones. How does that work behind the scenes? Sure. So think about all the events that create stress like an accelerator on your car.
Okay, people hit the gas, all right? And often, you burn out or you crash into something. Doing that breath allows you to activate what's called your parasympathetic nervous system or your break. And that's quite a strange concept for people who are so used to, accelerating to hit the brake and to slow down.
Um, allows your system. Once the revs drop down to a certain point, that's when the healing can take place. So when I was getting guys outta fatigue and I improved their sleep quality, everything in their life improved. So think of everything you've got in your life, everything like work, [00:07:00] play, relationships, the quality of all those things is relative to the quality of your sleep.
If your sleep is disturbed, that disturbs everything in the special forces. We used to actively target our enemy's sleep. 'cause we knew if we took it out for three nights, it would mess 'em up better than a bullet. So I just noticed that improving sleep allowed the body to heal. And the best way I know how to do it, pharmaceutical free is the deep activation of the parasympathetic nervous system and done right, it goes beyond words.
It goes beyond thought. Because depending on your view of human evolution, before we were thinking, before we putting paintings on rock walls, we were breathing before he was speaking, we were breathing. And one thing the psychologists haven't figured out yet is when people go through trauma, the trauma goes down deeper than the words can reach.
And so breath is one of those things that can get into the [00:08:00] deepest parts of us. Slow down and give us peace. And it's funny that for me, poor sleep is the perfect environment for any negative stuff in your head to grow more of. So I tend to lean into the idea that poor quality sleep is the thing that creates a lot of mental problems.
And they both feed each other. The more problems you've got in your head, the worse sleep you get. The worse sleep you get, the more problems in your head grow. So to arrest the physical side of things, breath work is a great way, and I'm not just gonna talk about this. I'm gonna show you an activity, to actually have that experience.
And I've got a whole company based around that. Breath is something that we do consciously as well as unconsciously. I need to say this because.
Think of your mind like a garden, whatever your water grows, okay? And those, uh, for years I was watering the weeds of stress.
Let's say you want [00:09:00] to, do some exercise. There's a part of you going, not right now.
I don't wanna do this. There's that part of you trying to talk you out of exercise. That's the disempowered parts of your head, knowing that if you exercise and you become powerful, they're gone. They're no longer in there. So they scream the loudest when they're about to die. So if you amplify that by about a thousand and someone's got some trauma in their head that they've been feeding for years, that's what you're up against.
When, you often do anything new that's positive. 'cause this stuff in your head goes, no, I don't wanna be kicked out. So the thing I need to tell people is that
even though I was a breath work coach. And I knew breath work would make me feel better when I'd gotten divorced. I'd lost my house, my home, my money, regular access to kids, and I'm sleeping in the lounge room of my parents' place at 3:00 AM These stress weeds, were loving it. They're like, this is awesome.
We're getting all the resources. And I knew that breathing would bring me peace, but it's like I could [00:10:00] not do it. I was all locked up with the stress weeds running the show. And I got to the point early in the morning that I was either gonna do self-harm, alcohol, pills, whatever it was. and yet I, part of me knew that breathing would help.
So what I did in that completely desperate state, was I looked at my left thumb and I said, Tim, you can take one breath. Just take one breath. And I drove into my chest and went, oh my gosh. And it was like taking that first breath after coming up from the shark attack. And then I'm like, okay, that works.
And I stuck two fingers into my chest, take two breaths, Tim, take two breaths. And I took two breaths. Okay, 3, 3, 3, get to three and then five, get to five, get to 10. You know, and I'm just driving these fingers in one at a time, one at a time. And then somewhere between breath 15 and breath 25, these stress weeds got kicked out.
And the rest of my brain was, thank goodness you kicked those guys out. Keep doing this. This is working. But up until the point they got kicked out, there was so much resistance because these guys were running the [00:11:00] show. So yes, breath work works, but just understand that when you need it most, there will be opposition.
And right now I'm just blah blah blahing, right? But when this actually happens, you'll be like, oh, this is what the guy was talking about. And that's why, with the Breathwork in Bed app, it's guided. So you can go, well look, I don't believe this will work, but I'm just gonna do that, and then this, and then all of a sudden, oh my gosh, this actually works.
You know what I mean? It does work. We were talking before the show that, I have a good psychiatrist that I've been seeing and, I had some triggers to my trauma and was there to see her and, she introduced me to breath work. And you probably know the beginner exercise. You're breathing in for four and you're holding it for four and Yep.
Get all box breathing four, and then you, you start all over again. And I was kind of skeptical. I'm like, just gimme some Xanax, and be done with it. And she said, no, this is faster. And, we started doing that in the appointment and she [00:12:00] had me hooked up to the her little monitor system and she showed me how my nervous system calmed down in just a few minutes of me doing those.
Those breath sessions. And so she gave me, homework to do. And, yeah, the demons come out at three o'clock in the morning, brother. And that's when I have to remember, okay, you gotta remember your breath work here. And then I can go back to sleep.
So I'm already, excited about what you're doing. Well, you've experienced yourself, it's pretty lonely at 3:00 AM. Yeah. And so, you know, not many people like yourself have that discipline to go into their breath, but to have a button you can press, I wanted to be there for those people at 2:00 AM when I needed it.
I think God put me in that situation so I could have empathy and then create a tool for people in those places. Um, 'cause I can't do what you do, Diana, and I can't do what all the listeners do, but if I can improve the quality of your sleep, then you're gonna do what you do even better.
And I think if you are a [00:13:00] responsible person, it's one thing to generate yourself and create an abundance in yourself. But if you believe that, you know, at some point God's gonna ask you, what did you do for those others around you? and what nobody knew back when I was doing all these incredible things in the veteran space, 40 saving 40 veteran lives from suicide is every six or seven weeks. I really find that the daily practice of connecting to yourself, your God, first, creating that abundance and out of your overflow, you can be generous with others.
Yes. You have to, put on your oxygen mask first before you help others next to you. That whole airplane scenario we always hear about. But it's true. You can't fill somebody else's cup of your cup isn't full. You know, you're running on empty.
That's not gonna help anybody.
And the thing that really gave me quite a, an uppercut Diana, was the [00:14:00] realization that my trauma, my unhealed wounds, I don't have the privilege of taking them to the grave with me.
They don't stop when I die. I pay them forward to my kids. I pay them forward to everyone who meets me. For me it was anger. Now, I've never met my great, great grandfather, but I'm pretty sure he was an angry dude.
I had to say, look, anger ran in my family until it ran into me. You know, I had to be the one to create healing for the generations before and the generations afterwards.
So having that external focus where if I don't deal with it myself, my kids are gonna have to deal with it. Everyone else has to deal with it.
It gets paid forward. Great. And I thank you for saying that because you know, it ends here with me. The generational trauma, it ends now. And so many people miss that. You can't sit here and wallow in your trauma, in your, past abuse because your kids and the people around you are gonna suffer too if you don't deal with it.
Oh, I like that. Instead of deal with it, heal with it! So I'm really excited to, get an [00:15:00] example Yes. Of this breath work. I'm, let's get a lived experience, almost like, almost like taste, touch, feel. So the only caveat I have to this, Diana, is people listening to this, I'd love you to participate as fully as possible, but you do need to be seated, supported, or lying down.
You can't be driving, you can't be cutting up carrots. Because this is gonna be you connecting fully to your breath, and breathing is easy, but
You've been breathing a certain way your whole life, right? And so to do it differently takes a a bit of focus and concentration. So I'm gonna do everything within my power to, have you take these full breaths, and all allow yourself to experience the fullness of it, okay? All allow yourself to go somewhere you haven't possibly gone before.
Allow yourself to have a bit of courage right now,​because Most people, they shallow breathe. If you saw someone in public and they're going, sh, sh, sh, sh, you know, they're about to [00:16:00] freak out, right? And without knowing it, most of us are shallow breathing is, or albeit slower, but we're still sending a signal to our brains that we're in fight or flight.
We can't rest and digest. So, to breathe fully is to live fully, to feel fully. All right, so this is really simple. I show this to high school students, to corporates, and, and like I said, I'm gonna do everything I can for people to get this, but they do need to be seated, not driving, not cutting up carrots, listening to my voice.
So to start with Diana, it's gonna be really easy. Just breathe in and breathe out. All right. That was easy, right? So now we're gonna build on that. We're gonna breathe in, and then we're gonna breathe in again and again, and again and again. All right, let's give that a try. Breathe in again and again, and again and again, and just let that go.
Now, did you notice, Diana, a little bit of extra space opening up in your, in your upper chest? [00:17:00] Absolutely. Okay. I didn't think that was there. So what, and it's amazing. We all own bodies, but we don't know what it can do for us. Like our bodies are amazing. I'm gonna show you another amazing fact about your body that you never knew.
So in your thumb and two fingers, you've got a turbo button, okay? Thumb and two fingers. And we're gonna pinch our fingers together as hard as possible in just a minute. All right, so that inhale you did where you breathed in, and then you breathed in again and again and again. We'll call that your secondary inhale.
All right? We're gonna call that your secondary inhale. So what's gonna happen in a second is you're gonna breathe in through your primary inhale. When it gets to your secondary inhale, I want you to pinch your thumb into your two fingers as hard as you can, and notice how that boosts your secondary inhale.
So everybody listening, just blow all [00:18:00] your air out, out, out, out, out, out. Now breathe in. And then when you're ready, hit the turbo buttons really hard and suck it into that upper chest. And then just let that out.
Now, Diana, did you notice when you hit those buttons, you can breathe a little bit more in? Yes. That's, that's crazy. Who knew, right? Our bodies are amazing. We are wonderfully made.
Do that a couple of times.
so can you feel the connection between your fingers and your upper third? Who knew? Right now, we're gonna juice that up even more. All right. So think of your, your chin and your power buttons, and there's a triangle there, right? And we are gonna, we are gonna open that triangle. We're gonna hit our power buttons as we raise our [00:19:00] chin to the sur, to the roof.
So our, our chin is gonna go up, our chest is gonna go up. It's like we are leaning back. So I'll give you a little demonstration. We're gonna breathe out, then breathe in. And when it comes to the secondary inhale, we're gonna raise our chin, push our power buttons, and hold it there. And then just feel what it is to get it all up in that space.
Are you ready? Yep. So breathing, breathing out, breathe it out, out, out, out, out. Breathing in, hit your power buttons, raise your chin, raise your chest. Look at the ceiling. Look at the ceiling. Raise your chin higher. Up, up, up. Open, open, open. And then just let it out.
Almost like an upward dog. Pretty much. It was like a, seated upward dog. Yep. That was great. And, and we're about halfway through. So the thing about [00:20:00] this secondary inhale. I call this the breath of possibility. Okay? When I've got crap in my head, I don't want there, I notice my structure hunches over, okay?
And things become impossible because I'm all hunched over, I'm pinching off my own air supply. So what this does, when we breathe forcefully into this upper third, I make the impossible possible. So this is your breath of possibility. So what I want you to do is try and double the speed of inhalation, but just do it through your nose.
Really try and snort it. Flare your nostrils, snort it through your nose. One thing my fighting coach taught me was that doing a nice snort through your nose, it goes through your sinuses straight into your brain. So the quickest way to oxygenate your brain is snorting through the sinuses. I dunno the science behind it, but it seemed to work in a fight.
All right, so, so what we're gonna do is like double the speed of our inhale by really, raising that chin fast, pinching those [00:21:00] ones and, and, and opening up this space with a, with a bit of aggression. Are you ready? Ready, everyone. Let's exhale. Exhale, exhale, exhale. Breathe in. Hit your turbo buttons and snort, snort snotor.
Look at the roof. Look at the roof. Open the chest. Open the chest. Open your chest like a flower. Now hold it there. Wriggle your shoulders. Open up that space by wriggle your shoulders. Wriggle your shoulders. Opening up. Feels really good to open it up and let it out with a loud sigh. Ah,
great. All right. How you feeling? I'm feeling good. Okay, so we're halfway through. Breath of possibility is up here. Breath of peace is down low in your belly. So what we're going to do right now. We're gonna do that big inhale. Okay. Filling that breath of possibility, that [00:22:00] top third, we're gonna hold our breath.
We're gonna let that air go from our upper chest, middle chest, lower, and we're gonna push it down low. Our hands are gonna be on our stomach, and we're gonna push it down as low as it can go. We're gonna squeeze it down there and we're gonna let it out With a hissing noise. A, it's like the air wants to come out, but your mouth is stopping it a bit like you've got that pressure cooker on the stove and there's that, that, that steam coming out.
That's what it's gonna be like and I'll coach you through it, but the longer you can make that sound for the better it's gonna be. Now this is something new. So we're gonna do this three times. And the third time you do this, you'll probably be able to relax and move a whole lot more freely. There's no wrong way to do this, but just this is doing something new, and I wanna acknowledge you.
You're doing really well. Normally, when I'm running a workshop, it takes about an hour to get people to this stage. So, you're doing really well. So listening to my voice, we're gonna blow all our [00:23:00] air out, out, out, out, out, out. Breathing in power buttons, raise your chin, raise your chest, open your chest like a flower in, in, in, in, in.
Then hold it. And wriggle. Wriggle your shoulders. Wriggle your shoulders. Now let your head relax forward. Let your head relax forward. Let your shoulders relax forward. Put your hands on your belly. And squeeze your belly. Let your head sort of hang forward like it's down towards your knees.
And then let out a as long as possible. And as you let it out, let all the tension fall outta your body. Tension out of your shoulders, out of your arms, out of your face. Feel like you're a deflating toy. Air's just falling out of you. And so is the tension.
Let it all just fall out with your breath
[00:24:00] out now. Very good. And this last one is gonna be the best one ever with your turbo buttons ready? Blow it all the way out. Breathing in. Open up that chest, raise that chin. Feel that flower in your chest opening up. Let the sunshine in. Let the sunshine in. Hold it, wriggle it around. R it around. And holding your breath, just collapse your head forward.
Collapse your head forward. Let your head just hang loose. Hands on your belly. Hands on your belly. Feel that balloon of air down below. Squeeze it and let it out with a for as long as possible. And as that air leaves your body, let all the tension just deflate out of your body. Your whole body is deflating and resting and coming to peace.
All the tensions from your neck, your shoulders, [00:25:00] your spine, your face, it's all just leaving with your exhale.
And all I'm gonna invite you to do is just keep your eyes closed for a second, and sit back in your chair. Sit back in your chair, and let that chair support your weight. Feel how your muscles are feeling supported by that chair. Feel how your relaxation is allowing you to feel held and supported. That chair was built to support you.
It will support you. So often in our tension, we don't allow ourselves to feel supported and held. It's like our own tension is, is a backwards way of having us feel held and supported. But it doesn't work like that. It's only when we give up our tension and give up our stress that we can feel supported, feel held, [00:26:00] and I invite you just to breathe deeply into that sensation of feeling supported, feeling held.
If there's any muscles in your body that need extra relaxation, I invite you to put your breath directly into them like you are breathing into those shoulders or neck or face. Notice how you can use your breath to target muscle groups and target different parts of your body.
It's moments like this. We realize that everything we need, everything we have been looking for is right here underneath our own skin. I. Access through our breath.
What a divine gift.
Shake your body out
and well done. You've just accessed [00:27:00] your breath. A deep connection with your body. And how do you feel?
Yeah, I feel like going for a run. Uh, that's the first time I've ever done that on a podcast, so this was great. That was more than I was, uh, expecting you to give us tonight.
That was excellent. So tell us how the folks can get in touch with you. I know you have your app. Mm-hmm. Yep. So anyone with a phone can, can put in three words to their app store, breath work in bed. I'm not a tech person, so I made it tech easy. It'll ask you when you wanna sleep, when you wanna wake up, and then notifications will fall out at that time.
You just hit the button and away you go. You'll be guided to sleep with peace out of bed with power. There's a bunch of bonus features on there that I'll let you discover for yourself. If you wanna reach out for me personally, you can go through the website, [00:28:00] breathworkinbed.com au. Um, and you know, I, I just want my desire is that people see how wondrously they're made and not just see it, but taste, touch, feel it.
So if you did that activity, you'd be feeling what it is to go, wow, this is awesome. I thought I'd have to take a pill or some external substance right? To access that kind of power. The resources is there and there's an accumulation effect. The better you sleep, the better you get outta bed.
the better old day you have then, there's a lot in there. And, the app is specifically made to give people, you know, the good stuff when they need it. Yes, I've got socials, and you can subscribe obviously, but there's enough social media in the world, in my opinion, what people need more than anything else is quality sleep.
Um, because if you go off the idea that sleep is the soil from which everything grows. I believe everyone's [00:29:00] got seeds of greatness, seeds of uniqueness inside of them, and they're just laying dormant for the right conditions. So when you improve your sleep, that's good. But what makes me excited is the flourishing of people's uniqueness, greatness, the gifts that they have that are just sitting dormant, that'll never grow while you're in fatigue.
Right, exactly. Well, this will, be in the show notes. How much is the app? Is there a cost for, uh, the first 28 days is free. It, it costs less than a cup of coffee for a month, to subscribe. But yeah, you do get the first 28 d free. Yeah.
Cheaper than pharmaceutical drugs too. Well, I thank you so much for what you do for saving lives and. Even though you're not in our military, thank you for your service. You're keeping people safe and doing the job that some people are not willing to do to go running into fire or bullets or danger. And so thank you so much for being on the show and sharing with us those [00:30:00] exercises at the end.
That was priceless. Two things I'll do for your viewers. I'll put in a link, the first p first 20 people that click it will get a free copy of my audio book. Uh, but I'll also put a link in there for that breath of peace and possibility should they want to tap into that again at any point.
Excellent. I'll put that in the, show notes as well. God bless you, Tim. Thanks so much for having me on Diana.
Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.

 
In this episode Diana interviews Tim Thomas, a veteran from Australia, who shares his experiences with breath work for stress management and healing. Tim recounts his military service, the abuse he faced due to his faith, and his mission to help soldiers who have attempted suicide. He elaborates on the transformative power of rest, overcoming PTSD, and breaking the isolation of trauma survivors. Tim's inspiring journey from a decorated soldier to a healer and advocate for veterans' mental health is both captivating and empowering.
 
 https://breathworkinbed.com.au/
This link gives all listeners immediate access to improved sleep using the Breathwork in Bed App. Just hit the appropriate link for your phone and you'll get a 28 day free trial.
 
00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message
00:47 Welcome to the Podcast
01:21 Introducing Tim Thomas
02:25 Tim's Background and Mission
05:50 Tim's Faith Journey
13:50 Military Experience and Challenges
22:05 Overcoming Isolation and Fatigue
27:08 Shark Attack Story
28:17 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser
 
Bio: 
Meet Tim Thomas—a man on a mission to transform lives and uplift the world, one night of quality sleep at a time. With over a decade of experience in the gritty, high-stakes world of veteran recovery, Tim brings an unparalleled depth of insight, forged through lived experiences in mental health, wellness, research, and breathwork. Alongside his team, he has raised over $1 million for impactful charities like the Gallipoli Medical Research Foundation, driving advancements in veteran health, and the Queensland Brain Institute, a global leader in neuroscience and mental health research. Tim’s personal passion lies in helping people access the transformative power of rest and connection, showing how they fuel resilience, clarity, and fulfillment. He’s not just a storyteller—he’s a catalyst for change, inspiring audiences to unlock the hidden potential that comes with better sleep and a generous heart. Tim’s energy is contagious, his insights are actionable, and his message will leave you empowered and excited. Get ready to hear stories that will captivate, strategies that inspire, and a perspective that will challenge everything you thought you knew about wellness. Let Tim take you on a journey you'll never forget.
 
Website: https://dswministries.org
Email: diana@dswministries.org
Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/
Social media links:
Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879
Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma
Affiliate links:
Our Sponsor: 753 Academy:
https://www.753academy.com/
Can’t travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here!
https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP
An easy way to help my ministry:
https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/
A donation link:
https://dswministries.org/donate/
 
Tim Thomas Part 1
[00:00:00]
Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help.
Now here is Diana.
Hey everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. So glad to have you with me today. We have a great episode for you and this one will be from down under. We've had some, friends on the podcast from Australia, and so today we also have a guest from Australia, Tim Thomas. We are going to talk about breath work and how that helps with stress management and healing.
I myself have [00:01:00] done some breath work with my psychiatrist, and believe it or not, it has really helped me. So I'm really intrigued about hearing what he has to say about breath work. But he is also gonna tell his story about being in the military in Australia and how he suffered abuse for his faith and what he did, to overcome that.
And we'll talk about his, work he's doing, to help, soldiers who have attempted suicide, which that is really, really amazing to save lives like that. I'm gonna read you a little bit about his bio. Meet Tim Thomas, A man on a mission to transform lives and uplift the world,
one night of quality sleep at a time. With over a decade of experience in the gritty, high stakes world of veteran recovery. Tim brings an unparalleled depth of insight forged through lived [00:02:00] experiences in mental health, wellness, research, and breath work. Alongside his team, he has raised over 1 million or impact charities like the Gallipoli Medical Research Foundation, driving advancements in veteran health and the Queensland Brain Institute, a global leader in neuroscience and mental health research.
Tim's personal passion lies in helping people access the transformative power of rest and connection, showing how they fuel resilience, clarity, and fulfillment. He's not only a storyteller. He's a catalyst for change, inspiring audiences to unlock the hidden potential that comes with better sleep and a generous heart . Who doesn't need more sleep, right?
Tim's energy is contagious, i'll tell you. His message will leave you empowered and excited. So get ready to hear some stories that will captivate and strategies that are going [00:03:00] to inspire. A perspective that will change everything you thought you knew about wellness. So
here we go. Please welcome my guest today, Tim Thomas.
Alright, welcome Tim Thomas to the show from down under and it's, uh, 11 o'clock tomorrow over there. Yep. This is coming to you live from the future. Or time travelers. So, we've had a couple guests from Australia and tell us what is a thing about Australia that maybe is a myth or something that isn't true?
What, yeah, sure. Okay. So you guys have, uh, Thanksgiving Uhhuh where you, where you carve up the, the Turkey. We have Thanksgiving here as well, but we carve up a kangaroo. Really? I didn't know that. No, you don't. What do you serve with it? Oh, you don't? Oh, you're joking. I'm just, I'm just kidding you.
Oh, you see my [00:04:00] eyeballs go really big. No, they're, they're too hard to catch. Yeah, I, I venture that. People think that, you know, crocodiles live in your backyard and, you have kangaroos as pets, but that's not true. Is it? No, although I was fortunate enough to grow up with my father working with the Aboriginals, and so, eating kangaroos, eating, anything that crawled or, walked on the ground was part of my, uh, diet growing up.
Yeah, my dad actually worked in the church, with the indigenous, in some very low socioeconomic, circumstances. There's on the YouTube, there's those clips called Restoring Faith in Humanity, where there's these acts of kindness to people that could, you know, never potentially repay it.
But that was just my day to day seeing my parents and their sincere, service, going beyond any sort of physical restraint. The older I get, the more I [00:05:00] appreciate it. I like that. Tell us how you came to know the Lord. What was your spiritual background? You mentioned your, family in the ministry.
How did you know, Jesus personally? What did that look like for you? Well, having a faith based background, you think, you know, going to church every week, Sunday school, my father was the pastor, uh, that I would have a faith and I did, but I feel like it was someone else's. I didn't really own it.
And the thing is, there's no bottom to the depth of the relationship. So I'm always finding this new depth of relationship, which makes the old relationship redundant. You know, letting the old self die. What you once clinging to and almost to find yourself with, you've gotta literally let that die and allow yourself to, to be transformed.
And I've had, uh, quite a few deepening transformative experiences, most of which come out of, uh, [00:06:00] getting in some way, shape, or form broken. And there was something that happened. So my background is, I was a professional fighter, in the early mixed martial arts scene, which was, no rules fighting is what they called it back in the nineties.
Mm-hmm. Uh, I joined the special forces and. Before you go on deployment, they get you to write a letter to your loved ones, uh, in case you die. And that was very confronting for a lot of guys. So you coming up against, you know, fear of death, uh, and, and fear in general, right? Mm-hmm. And I thought, well, there was only one time in the Bible where Jesus was afraid, and that was in the garden of Gethsemane.
And he wasn't just a little scared. He was so scared he was bleeding blood. and I started thinking, why was he so scared? Why was he so fearful? And I'm like, it can't be for any fear of physical pain because I. I know guys, I can just flick [00:07:00] a switch and they can control their physical pain. And, and I'm sure he had that ability, he had power over his physical body.
And I started thinking, what Jesus was really afraid about was that when he was on that cross and he was bearing our sins, he couldn't be with God. So this bond that had been there since the beginning of time, for the first time ever was actually severed.
Mm-hmm. And Jesus, for the first time ever in his, in the in, since the beginning of conceivable time, he was alone. He was completely alone. So yes, he experienced everything that us humans experienced while he was here, but he did something that none of us, I.
need to experience, and that is separation from God. Yeah. So when he was on that cross, that was Easter is a time of loneliness. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? You know that, it's a bit like, you've got a child, you just put 'em outta the car and drive off.
There's no physical harm being done, but those golden threads get severed. So, because I saw that, [00:08:00] because Jesus experienced separation from God, we never have to, and it doesn't matter if I'm alive or I'm dead, I'm doing well, I'm doing poorly. Nothing's gonna separate us because of Jesus experiencing that separation for us.
And I, I completely lost my fear of death, um, to the point where I literally had fun with it, you know? Um, I remember guy saying, Tommo, you're not supposed to be having so much fun. But, that was my detachment from, from any fear because I, I realized that nothing could separate us. Oh, I Amen.
To that. Wow. So when was your faith real to you? Was there a, a particular event that happened in your life, or?
Well, to be honest, I have played in both realms. You might call it the woowoo, energy, whatever you wanna call it, um, new age. But there are some principles that they have in there and they talk about, uh, lower energy frequencies or what we would call in the Christian faith sins, you know?
Mm-hmm. Fear, anger, hatred, you [00:09:00] know, lower energy frequencies. And if you are stuck in those frequencies, then you can't transcend to the higher connection with the divine,
and then the difference between, your lower energies and your higher energies is courage. And as a Christian you'd say letting the old self die, that which you are familiar with. Okay? I always know Tim, as this particular type of person, this is what I do. This is what I think, this is how I react.
And so to. To let go of that and to let that self die. And it is essentially a death, takes a lot of courage to step into the unknown. It's that leap of faith, catch me, Jesus. And, so I found it very useful to use the, technical breakdown in the sort of woowoo space to help me access the sins that I've been hanging onto.
All the poison I'd been drinking to try and help hurt [00:10:00] other people. And I'm sure I was still saved by grace, but to, I think we naturally connect with God provided the blockages are removed. But we tend to hang onto these blockages. We hang onto to that which we are familiar with. I was very familiar with going, that person wronged me and I'm angry, so I want revenge.
Or I might say I forgive them in my head. And yeah. But that just means that, I've cut them outta my life and I hope God punishes them some way somehow. You know? Yeah. That's not really connecting to something higher. And the way I sort of saw it was, you can draw these wrongs or sins closer to you.
Uh, and so, my pathway to a living, breathing, active relationship with God and the divine, has me understanding that it does start in this physical space. It does start with me getting forgiveness for the things that have me in fear, shame, guilt.
So, I'm a big fan of breath work and if you wanna look at it from the parable of, the [00:11:00] king giving his servant talents, pieces of gold, do something with it.
And then when I return , I'll see what you've done with it. So inside of us is this, let's just say gold. And my experience of my true connection with the divine is he's given me this bag of meat around this wondrous, gold. And when this bag of meat does what I've been put here to do, it's like, it lines up to, to amplify the gold that's inside of me.
And that's unique to each individual. Some people get it through playing music, some people get it, with exercise, some people, me, it was combat. I have to be honest. I feel like God put me here to do the things I was made to do. Ah, when, I believe, you're on, purpose.
When energy's like money, how you invest, it's how you get it back. And when you are doing the thing that you felt you've been put here to do, you get an incredible reward.
So when I started tapping into, getting rid [00:12:00] of the sin, the lower energy stuff and getting into the divine, uh, that's when it became like a daily loving, abundant.
I have to reconnect, realign, and, to get that power, get that abundance. We get lost. We get lost in what we can see. We're a very visual society, so we're only looking at what we can see and, what is unseen is what's, super powerful.
That's the stuff that I tend to lean into because, and I don't think we say this loudly enough. A man's happiness and generosity is relative to how powerful he feels. 'cause if you wanna see an unhappy stingy guy, I
they're not feeling powerful.
And I believe that starts with us. So I tell my son, our power starts with us.
Um, I hope that lands, so you've probably heard the phrase, you are a soul. You have a body. You heard that before? Yep. Yep. And so a lot of people, they mix it up as they have a body and my soul's here just for the ride. It's, no, we are a soul. We are spiritual. And, yeah. I think, [00:13:00] folks can relate to what you've been saying.
You, mentioned your military experience in Australia. Now I'm familiar with American military 'cause I come from a military family. Uh, but what is it like in Australia? Are there any differences? What is it like being a soldier there? Well, I would say it's,
I've worked with some of the US troops, and to be honest, I didn't see there was too much difference. Of course as Australians, we'd just say we're much tougher than the US troops. But, but no, I work with some really, switched on guys from the us the Navy Seals in their special forces of selection, they got a hell week.
In the Australian Commandos, we have a hell 28 days. Oh, okay. So something similar. And, you mentioned that you had gone through some abuse because of your faith. Was that connected to your military service or in, other areas of your lives? Well,
I will caveat this. I struggled with military, [00:14:00] culture and I was always trying to figure it out. So I was always asking questions and, asking questions was probably not encouraged, but I always did it. Uh, so I was always that guy. So insecure alpha males always need someone to, you know, kick sand in the face of, 'cause that to them there's only so much energy in the room, so they have to take it, um, from someone else.
And. there was a drinking culture there hanging out with the boys. You know, I had a young family. I didn't hang out with them. And I also had a Christian faith. And I remember there was one particular sergeant that, really tried to break me. Mm-hmm.
And the thing is, my physical body, you can't break. You know, my, my mind, you can't break. I'm too tough. You know, I'm connected to something so powerful. but then something happened that I didn't expect. He managed to attack the people I cared mostly about. So I was on deployment and I made a promise to my then wife.
I call her my then wife, not my ex-wife. 'cause I, I stand for a positive future. and I promised my then wife that I'd write her a letter every day. And this particular [00:15:00] sergeant, , said, um, you, that's a security risk. We want to take your laptop off you. Now, my wife had given birth, uh, to our second born two weeks before deployment.
Mm-hmm. And I had all the pictures of my wife giving birth, my kids in the bath on this hard drive. Mm mm-hmm. And he took the hard drive and he put it on the, the army's equivalent of the internet so anyone could see it. And I'd never been in a situation where the people I cared about most was used against me like that, you know?
And obviously that freaked my then wife out, you know, and she was scared that her milk will dry up. She was so stressed. And now then that then of course freaked me the hell out, and so I'd never been. Like, I got a, armor of God man, but it was like a knife got un underneath under all of it hit my heart and I just bled out.
and I, I literally, in this lucid state, I saw a bird fly out from inside of me, just jump around in a rock and then fly off. And I'm like, what is [00:16:00] that? And I was later to realize that was the bluebird of happiness leaving me, and for about a decade there, 'cause, and when I went back to Australia and I, and you know, they decompress you with psychological stuff and, and I shared that the psychologist re reacted how you react and said, that is so wrong.
Right? Yeah. Um, and so I put in what's called a an ROG redress of grievance. That's when the second layer of abuse started happening, because what the army is particularly good at is if you challenge rank, and I was just a private Okay. Nothing, nobody, oh, you know? Right. So, so they all thought, well, he's an external threat.
Let's all bond together and, and screw this guy over a second time. So on every level, people who are really friendly then just treated me like I was invisible. No one would talk to me on base, yeah, I was kind of dead inside for the longest time, and, it really impacted my relationship with my then wife.
Um, I was, it was the classic term where my [00:17:00] husband came back from deployment a different man, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, Out of all that because I'm, I'm the toughest guy I know, right? Yeah. No, no one can break me. But the thing is, God put me in that place because it's not so much what we do that gives us value to others. It's what we've come through. And, and I had to go through that so I could actually have a heart having empathy for other people needing healing.
You know, I was one of those tough guys that, if you couldn't handle it, bugger off mate. You can't handle it. Get out. There is a time and a place for that. There is a time and a place. I think this country is made great by that, but it's not the only option that, that is in your tool belt.
What I didn't know was that when I got out, something happened when I got out. So in 2011, I think it was April. And this is just a true story. So I, I'd reached rock bottom.
Well, long story short, I was about to kill a man. The Australian government wasn't paying me. Uh, this is gonna be murder. Mm-hmm. [00:18:00] Um, I'd, I'd reach rock bottom. PSDI didn't even know I had, I just had to drink half a car and a grog every night before I spoke to my then wife. Family was going to hell.
what do you do when you're experiencing something you've never experienced before? And you need help or you see a psychologist? And that was such a strange concept for me, Diana, because I'm hurting and I've gotta go speak to a stranger. How does that make sense? I don't know this guy. I don't trust him.
So I am completely triggered just driving in there, right? And after I told him all I saw in service, all the abuse, this guy wasn't just incompetent. Incompetency I can handle. This guy was apathetic. And at the end he's like, oh, so you think it was a problem with your mom and dad? And, and everything in the room just froze.
And I saw he had a glass framed, you know, psychology degree behind him. And it made a lot of sense to grab that and feed it to him because he was a healer and he was supposed to be healing people, but he wasn't just not healing people, he was harming people. And in my state of [00:19:00] disconnection it made sense to do that.
So I get outta my chair to do it. And this, this is really real, right? But then I felt this hand on my chest saying, red flag, Tim, you're the toughest guy. You know how many other guys are struggling in a, in this system that doesn't seem to care or want you to get better? And that's when I sat back down, Diana.
And then I saw them, I saw all these people left and right of me just willing me on saying, you know, Tim, if you can find a way forward for you, you can find a way forward for us. And, and I really need people who are listening to this to draw this question to them.
' cause I didn't just go through that for myself. All right, there's a spirit at work here. Everyone's up against something. And the the golden question I asked, I invite everyone to ask, and that is how many other people are in your situation right now? And that, that's a real question. Give it a real number.
And, and when I looked to my left and my right, there was no depth of people in my space. And I thought, well, look. It doesn't [00:20:00] matter if it takes me a week, a month, a year, a decade, I've gotta find a way forward. 'cause if I can find a way forward for me, I can find a way forward for them. And if it takes me a decade, I'm pretty sure that's the amount of time I'm gonna be able to save these people.
And I was pretty sure that at some point in the future there's gonna be people that possibly haven't even met yet. Really glad I made a decision to move forward positively as opposed to going to jail. I understand that you saved, what, 17 people from committing suicide? Uh, I, I stopped counting at over 40.
Oh, well that's even better. Um, I'd certainly like to hear more , about that. Okay. So my lifetime goal was to say, 'cause we've lost about 40 troops to bombs and bullets in Afghanistan, in Australia. But we've lost 30 or 40 times that amount to suicide. And so I had this goal in my head that if I can, save, 40 guys from suicide, I'll die a happy man.
I don't care if it takes the rest of my life. This is what I wanna do. and I had no qualifications, but God had prepared me for this. So I'm [00:21:00] dyslexic. I, failed high school, but I could see patterns. And the pattern I saw happening is, is something that the mainstream spreadsheet never saw.
And that was this. And these two things enabled me to save those 40 guys within a year. All right, so this is, this is powerful stuff that I'm showing. I need everyone to listen to this. It doesn't matter if the pain's physical or emotional for us humans, it'll get to a certain duration or intensity that it transforms from just pain into loneliness and isolation.
And when we're all alone, when we're feeling isolated, all sorts of crazy crap. It can be justifiable. I was about to kill a man, and that was justifiable in my isolated state, but my isolation was broken. When I asked the question, how many other people are going through this? So I saw that, of all the millions of dollars of resources that get poured into veteran, it's all water off a duck's back if you're not breaking the isolation.
And it's as simple as understanding that, especially for us guys [00:22:00] when we experience trauma. Yeah, we want to talk about it, but we are waiting for another, especially we need another bloke who has walked the same path to speak the unspoken words inside our hearts. So we've got these unspoken words that we can't speak ourselves, that we need to hear another guy who's walked that path.
Speak, and then all of a sudden the jaw pops open. And I can't say what they normally say, but let's just say they say things like, gee whiz, I thought I was the only one going through this. Exactly. So, so breaking the isolation is the first step that it cannot and should not stay there. Uh, a lot of people get stuck in the feel goods of breaking the isolation.
Oh, I'm not the only one going through this. Right? And veterans are really good at forming these anti-social social groups where, oh, look, we've broken our isolation, but I can only be myself around these people, and I'm only around them for one hour a week. You know, for the other times, I have to sort of go back [00:23:00] in my shell, right?
Mm-hmm. So, yes, breaking the isolation's the first point, but it can't stop there. The next point that needs to be, uh, addressed is the plain and simple fatigue. I'm alone and isolated. I'm the only one that's got my back. I can't drop my guard for a second. Everything's a threat. 'cause everything is a threat.
So I'm not sleeping, if I drop my guard, something bad's gonna happen. It's gonna be my fault. And it's this loop and it just becomes normal. Not sleeping, being hypervigilant, drinking lots of alcohol, lots of substances. And I made the mistake of telling the doctor I couldn't sleep and I lost six years of my life to pills, and initially
i'm like, this is great long service, leaving a bottle. But no one tells you the cost of taking them. Yes, there's a benefit, but there's a massive cost. You get something, but it takes something from you. Mm-hmm. I lost a lot of memories. That's kind of a, a real gray patch in my life. Those six years I was on all these pills and I'm pretty sure I lost a bunch of memories from before that.
So I. There's a time and a place for pills. They're [00:24:00] sometimes are lesser of two evils, but no one tells you the cost and especially nobody tells you just how hard it is to come off these things. Mm-hmm. You know, if you wanna feel like a minute, turns into an hour, be in the kind of pain that the withdrawals put through your system.
I, I nearly went completely insane coming off of these things. So point I'm trying to make here is the two things I did that say 40 guys within, um, a year, and then I stopped counting, was breaking the isolation. And I want all the listeners to understand that what you are up against when you come through that, that gives you the qualification to break the isolation of other people going through it.
You know, my pathway was a veteran, but it could be breast cancer, it could be a relationship, it could be anything. Whatever you're up against, you get through that. Live the life you wanna live. That gives you the qualification to break the isolation. Now, you might not say anything that that person hasn't heard before, but coming from you and your lived experience, you can put that from their head [00:25:00] into their heart, into their soul spirit.
And then they get a chance to start making powerful choices, in a place of connection. And then getting them out of fatigue was where, when they gave me a bunch of pills, I didn't know breath work was something that could alkalize my neural pathways, turn my overthinking head off, give my body peace, give my body healing.
It is the piece that transcends all human understandings. And I, and I don't just wanna talk about this there, there'll be a time at the end of this podcast where we'll have a lived experience of this. those 40 lives were saved by two simple PR principles that aren't addressed.
Breaking the isolation, through authentically spoken words. I've got six pages of weapons I'm qualified in, but the most powerful thing I own is the authenticity in the words coming outta my mouth. That literally changes the axis of the world. And then getting people out of fatigue because people have 98% of everything they need inside of them.
But if they're feeling [00:26:00] alone, if they're feeling fatigued, they can't access their own resources. But when their isolation is broken and they're out of fatigue, it's like their inner compass just turns on and it, and they, they know where they need to go. And it's just, it's, it's amazing how little people need when they get exactly what they want.
Um, yeah, definitely. You know, I know there's a shark story somewhere.
How does the shark come into play with, is that, just something you survived or is that.
Oh, look, that was a fun NBE near death experience where, um, okay. Yeah. Very relevant. It was the classic one where you have your life flashing before your eyes. Right. Um, and the important part about this isn't so much the shark attack in the, in the context of a, a, let's say Christian faith afterwards, because I, I love the ocean, I love spearfishing.
And there's always sharks where there's fish when we're chasing fish. There's, it's always a good sign when there's sharks around because that tells you you're in the right area. [00:27:00] And it's a fun story. Like this thing had my leg, and I don't believe it when people say, oh, I punched it and then it went away.
I'm stabbing this thing in the eye and it's not letting go. And I'm about to drown, right? As a fighter, I've taken a lot of hits, but never, ever, ever has my body felt like a ragdoll being shaken by a dog. Mm-hmm. Um, so I literally felt that my body going, oh yeah, yeah.
Like just so rapidly shook. I'm like, whoa.
This is a great place to stop and continue. Next time on the podcast, I know that you'll wanna hear the rest of his story and what helpful things does he have for us to better our health and and handle the stress and heal from our trauma. So [00:28:00] thanks for listening today. I wish you a great week, and we'll see you back next time on the Wounds of The Faithful Podcast.